greg775

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 04:32 AM) I never said I gave him NO credit. However you are giving him too much. You keep saying if we win that means it was good managing. I won't refreain from telling you flat-out that that's utterly ridiculous. I believe I've already (in my tenure here) gone through WAY MORE scenarios detailing his idiocy to you over the years... TONS OF THEM. It's pretty obvious a guy who would call a walk to a .145 hitter but not do so to a reigning MVP in the 8th inning with a 1 run lead, 2 outs and a base open is missing something upstairs... and this type of scenario is very common with Ozzie. You still don't get it. 2005 means nothing anymore. The Sox's WS title doesn't make him a great manager. If he has so much to do with the Sox winning, what about losing? They've been choking significantly ever since that year, greg. Good point. I guess I am just trying to convince myself there's some hope of him one day being logical about something. 1.) Well that's good. I did not think you were giving him any credit at all for the WS title. I may be giving him too much credit, but I have said I applaud the players that year as well. they deserve MORE credit than Ozzie. Players win games. They played hard. They wanted it. This year's team doesn't want it. Maybe they are sick of Ozzeroo. They appear to be. I'm convinced we won't have him around much longer so we'll see next season. 2.) My point is these moves in games are not unique to Ozzie. Most managers make the same type in-game decisions. Yes, he's done a poor job this year because his team appears to sleepwalk. But no manager could win with this anemic offense. The question is whether it's Ozzie's fault so many players can't hit this year. Dunno. but I wouldn't think so. I'm just saying it's a shame it's not working out with Ozzie long term because the lessons learned here are going to serve him well in his new gig.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 04:43 AM) For $14 million a year? I'd definitely stick around being terrible at baseball and drowning in boos for three years. I bet Dunn would, too. Yeah, it's impossible to turn down that money. There's just no way to simply quit unless the Sox pay him 3/4s of that money maybe? 3/4s of it to just go away?

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 04:25 AM) It's obvious to me as a FAN that the lack of energy and enthusiasm of this team is in direct correlation of the managers getting the players in the right mindset to take the field and PLAY baseball, not just be a part of it Did you see the Royals? That's a s***ty team that took the field to PLAY the game, even DJ made that comment The COACHES need to f***ing GO Our team certainly looks like it doesn't enjoy playing baseball, except for the pitchers. The team is dead. KC certainly plays like it knows it can beat us, which it can. Four of six now in 2 weeks? Disgraceful. Francour would have been a much better addition than Dunn as it turns out. He has a great arm in right, too. He could have played there and CQ in left. Not a bad outfield if Rios hadn't turned to s***. Of course we still would have Juan and Ozzie probably wouldn't have wanted to trade him last offseason if we got Francour. Francour as a DH would be way better than Dunn as well.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:35 PM) I'd have to do the math to disregard April. And that's too much work for me. Just because he's not April bad doesn't mean he's good. JP has been below league average for a LF for a while now. Save 2009 when he didn't play everyday. This is key. JP as your #9 hitter is fine. JP with 700+ PAs is no good. It's all relative. If you like a player you can throw out a month like it's nothing. If you don't like a player, you can harp on the bad month over and over.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 04:38 AM) I'd rather watch the young guys personally than these stiffs. Blow it up.... Amen. At least the Sox have gotten so boring and bad that the fanbase will OK getting rid of about anybody on this dull team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 02:59 AM) You tried to claim that Kenny never makes deals at the deadline, which was demolished. Quit pouting. Pouting? Not quite. I said the word 'tweak.' We don't tweak til it's too late. Then we do nothing but pick up scrubs like Manny.

God we stink. We couldn't hit Cy Chen again and nothing in extra innings. What a joke of an offense; a joke of a baseball team. There is no hope of this team contending. That is obvious. We've lost 4 of 6 to KC in the last 2 weeks or so. A KC team that has won two Central Division series since May 5, both against us. Cmon. Anybody watching that game realized we had no chance in extras. Against the KC Royals! Disgraceful. The season is over folks. Just blow it up now and start to make the changes now. Anybody who thinks this team is magically going to become good is delusional IMO. I hope KW makes good trades/moves because if he's gone after this season, he might not care. He prolly should have Hahn overlook each upcoming deal.

If we lose again tonight and lose another series to KC .. how mad will u all be? Mutiny mad? Break up the team mad? Or say "it's still early."

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:46 PM) The White Sox annually make the fewest roster tweaks of any team in the league. From the point when Milledge was DFA'd and Gray was called up, until Gray was DFA'd and Peavy was activated, a whole month, there were no roster changes at all. Same 25 guys for a whole month, a month when the White Sox looked awful. I got absolutely ripped on here recently for saying we never tweak the roster.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 04:07 PM) Oh please. What if a 15 year old, in the closet gay kid who loves the White Sox heard about this story? Isn't there a chance that Gordon making fun of gays just made it even more clear to this kid that gays are something to make fun of? Of course not to you since using the word gay in a derogatory way doesn't personally affect you in any way. You won't have to go to school and hide who you are because you might get beat up or teased. Gordon didn't say "Getz is gay" because he hoped that if people thought Getz had homosexual relations that people would be excited and happy to hear about that. He wrote that because being gay is something to make fun of and laugh at. So when you say it doesn't hurt anyone what you're trying to say is it doesn't hurt you. That is one, great take, great post.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) I agree with everything you said. And yes, it was her attitude I found appealing. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) Still trying to decide which one I liked more, Bad Teacher or Horrible Bosses. I guess I'd have to go with Horrible Bosses simply because the ensemble of talent (Foxx, Spacey, Farrell, Aniston, Sutherland) in that movie. Maybe it's because Justin Timberlake's character was so over the top annoying...and Lucy Punch (the teacher across the hallway) was great for awhile...but her act grew thin too as the movie went on. Finally, there's just no way that any teacher (even in the worst public school in America) could have gotten away with all those things. When I started teaching 2002, you had to get permission from 2-3 different people in the building (instructional coach/at least one Vice Principal) just to show a movie ONCE, in a single period, and you had to write an extensive lesson plan linking it to your curriculum/textbook. Horrible Bosses was great. Loved it. Caufield I didn't realize teaching had become so hands on. Is it total beuracracy (sp) for a teacher now? Tell us some more horror stories of meddling of higher ups in the teaching profession. Why can't you show movies? Do they think you are being lazy as a teacher?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) What a terrible situation for all parties involved. Honestly, aside from continually hitting him 4th, Ozzie is doing what he should. Just give him a permanent spot at No. 7 the next 3.5 seasons til his contract runs out. Got to play him unless he retires.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) Exactly and very simple. That's not bad. Who gets 3B in that scenario? Omar? Please no. Teahen? Gosh no.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Juan Pierre has not sucked since May 1. That is just flat out ignorant and it is the problem with some overly stat happy people. I just can't buy that argument. I'm not saying he's excelled either, but he's been a serviceable leadoff hitter since May 1. Amen. Why don't the Juan haters just admit that after he cost us that game with his outfield gaffe early he was dead for the rest of the season in their eyes? And then he screwed up, what, two more plays in April and they have blasted him evermore. I do believe he could be hitting .320 and people would say he sucks. Do you agree? BTW, Juan does his job in the opener in KC, getting us on the board with his triple and ensuing sac fly. Yesterday he gets hit and scores a run. Doesn't matter. Offense.Is.Dead.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:12 PM) It's amazing to me that people can look at this team, a team that's 8 over at 36-28 since May 6th, despite playing like s*** offensively, and say 'no chance, they don't have it' and then not evaluate MIN, CLE and DET the same way. Cleveland is 30-35 since then. Detroit is 36-27 since then, a half game better than the Sox. Minnesota is 33-33 since then. Nobody "has it". Nobody is running away with this thing. The Sox will be within 5 games all season. It is right there if they can ever wake up and take it. Hibbard you are assuming one thing maybe ... that we can beat Cle, Minn and Det head to head. Well we finally took 2-3 from Detroit but now with Chen about to shut us down, we're losing 2 of 3 to KC ... again. This is after Minnie just abused KC 3 of 4. It's hard to believe we are 36-28 since May 6, though. It seems we're a lot worse team than that. What frustrates me is the fact KW and Ozzie apparently have faith that if they stay the course we'll win the division by one game. If we play at another 36-28 clip that's what will happen probably.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) But, "Where would he play?" QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) Dunn needs to hit the DL. Minimum 15 game trip, but it allows like 7-10 days to clear his head and completely forget about baseball (while still training) and then you get him 5 games against garbage in AAA. Having Dunn hit the mysterious DL list would be the best solution. Or trading Juan and putting Viciedo's pop in LF. The consensus on here seems to be nobody would want Juan. But really there's nowhere to put him except DH or LF. I don't see how a creative manager could solve this except by DHing him 4 times a week and Dunn three and having him play 2 days a week for Juan in left. That might work, too, but you still have the problem of sitting Dunn's monster paycheck.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) This feels like the worst point too. We're 10th in the AL in runs in July, we were 9th in June, 4th in May, 8th in April. No clutch hits. Plodders on the basepaths. Pop ups galore. Lots of DP grounders. Chen is licking his Chops.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) JP is still dead in my eyes. When you make as much slappy contact as he does, some hits are going to inevitably fall in. I'd venture to guess his BABIP is well over .350 since May 1. Bottomline is he doesn't produce runs. His one tool, speed, has deteriorated considerably. An extra basehit of any kind is out of the question. And then there's that throwing arm. I know. He's been buried by most since early April. Truthfully he probably could be hitting .320 and most would despise him.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) I mean how many other teams in this exact scenario wouldn't have called up their best AAA hitter by now? I think every other team would have brought him up. Our offense sucks; huge candidate to improve it is one phone call away.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) Let's hope after the lineup flails away at The Mystifying Chen again tonight and we waste another quality start from our starter, somebody somewhere is gonna make the call, but of course that won't happen. KW will wait another few weeks until the pressure can really mount on the 22 year old to save the Sox. Great f*cking plan. Great post. I've given up. Because they can't bring him up. There's nowhere to play him after they moved him off third base. Next year, left field will be his since Sox won't be bringing Juan back. If they do bring Juan back, Viciedo obviously will be traded probably for a third baseman which is a hilarious thought since he played third for us last year.

Didn't the whole hyperbole thread start over somebody saying Dunn was one of the worst hitters in baseball history or the worst? This writer kind of backs that up.

Me too. It's funny how people skew stats to their liking. Juan is hitting .270 or so and has been doing well and hasn't had any major outfield problems since April. We still hear from some about Rios' talent and potential because of a short stretch last season? The eye test tells me Juan has been doing great the past several weeks. If that drives you stat guys crazy, well whatever. The bottom line is Juan was dead in many people's eyes after one error in April, his first error.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) Seems unheard of. What power does he actually possess in his role, other than ruining the farm system with awful trades? It's like he and Ozzie don't want to win this year. Weird.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) No it isn't. Not to anyone who watched games that season. We caught lightning in a bottle. That team was not supposed to perform that well, not by a longshot. Look at teams like the Yankees. For a long time it didn't really matter who their manager was. They were just too good. Once the Sox came back to earth it became pretty obvious pretty quick that Ozzie was a dimwit. So simply winning, without taking any ACTUAL criteria into account, makes the manager masterful... no matter what. Piss-poor logic, greg. Sorry. You already tried to counter the idea we'd be better off without him by saying "He won us a WS title." So you're kinda contradicting yourself. I just think you don't know any better. Uh... no, we won't. You will, I'm sure... but not all of us. 1.) Oh, cmon Hurt, you are giving the manager of a WS team no credit. Oz will be better off in Florida with a lot of fans agreeing with you. Our fanbase doesn't deserve him if fans truthfully believe we won in spite of him. My gosh I wish I could be the type of fan you are. I truly believe you are misguided to think the skipper, the man who makes out the lineups, the man who makes all the calls had nothing to do with our success and was a 'dimwit.' You want him gone. Fine. But IMO your comments about that season are misguided. No credit to the manager? Well I'll go the other way and say he did a GREAT job managing that team and the players were great as well. 2.) You want me to go through all those close games in the postseason and state my case for Ozzie's managing? Please. Do we really want me to do that? We lost one game that postseason and many of the games were close. I think he did a nice job. 3.) He has the last laugh. He has Chicago's only WS title since the dark ages and he's gonna be let go. That truly is laughable. 4.) Maybe I contradict myself but yes he deserves the boot for his performance this year. But I'll never say he's not a great manager and I think it's sad he'll be managing in Florida next year. End of a good era.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:58 AM) You seem to mindlessly think because he was our manager in 2005 that he's a great manager, which is utterly ridiculous. That team was magic. Even Ozzie's bumbling couldn't stop the Sox from winning games that year. And again (since you didn't respond to my last post), 2005 does NOT give him a free pass. Six years later, you're still defending Ozzie on account of a World Series as if it grants him full immunity for the rest of his life with this organization. It doesn't, period. This shouldn't be hard to understand, greg. First of all, I disagree with those who say, "even Ozzie's bumbling couldn't stop the Sox from winning games that year." That frankly is B.S. We were a steamroller thru the playoffs; some were calling us one of the best teams of all time because of that postseason run. He did a masterful job. Uh, a lot of those games were close games, especially in the Series. He was a masterful manager. 2.) You are right 2005 doesn't give him a free pass. I won't cry at his firing. He probably deserves the axe for our s***ty start with this payroll and our continuing s***ty play. I don't care if they fire him. What I AM saying is a.) in 30 years we'll remember him as our best manager, quite possibly the only one to lead us to a WS. The odds of us winning another if baseball remains this way finance wise, are terrible. I'm saying go ahead and fire him, but it is sad because he is young and he's only going to get better IMO. His team let him down horribly this season; he's not a bad manager. I think he's going to be in baseball until he' s 70. Sad it won't be with us, but yes, he prolly deserves to be axed for this season. Interesting that the DH situation is the thing that finally got him fired. Kotsay, then Dunn. If we had some offense from that position, we might uh, win. KW deserves just as much blame as Oz if not more IMO. Peavy? Nice move. Rios? Great. I found your first post. You said to me: "greg... 2005 was 6 damn years ago. This is not 2005 anymore. This whole attitude that Ozzie is entitled to being here simply because of that title is entirely illogical. I don't know what it will take for you to understand this." I agree. Caufield made a good point comparing this to a president. One can do a good job one term and not the next. I agree he probably should get the boot from the Sox office for this team's shameful performance. But I would like him to come back at some point, cause I'm convinced he's good. I would almost approve of Jerry telling him his entire staff has to go and give Ozzie a couple more years once KW gets moved upstairs and Hahn (sp) gets him some real players. But I can handle his firing. Yes this team's unbelievably awful season is on him partly.