77 Hitmen

It'll be the only MLB stadium with a view of the New York City skyline! Seriously though, it does look pretty cool. The unique roof is suppose to allow natural light to come into the park indirectly and that glass wall in the outfield looks humongous. Only 2,500 parking spaces according to news articles. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/sport/oakland-athletics-ballpark-las-vegas-spt-intl/index.html

I'm not sure why Sox fans want the Sox to be the one "line in the sand" stand against public funding for sports stadiums. There's other stadiums that are funded by an increase in sales tax, which IMO is much worse than extending an existing 2% hotel tax that'll still be there whether the Sox build a new park or not. Well, I think I know why.....because JR is a greedy, horrible, tone-deaf owner who already played the relocation card to get a new stadium once and then helped botch the design of said stadium. And I totally agree with that sentiment. But, I'll be a Sox fan long after Jerry has left this world and I think a South Loop ballpark would be great for the franchise in a post-Reinsdorf era. IMO, I hope they make Jerry pay a significant portion of this project (since his family and shareholders will get a huge bump in franchise value if this park is built) and a deal gets done to make this happen. Oh, and I'm no fan of the McCaskeys either. They're worse than Reinsdorf IMO. At least he built his own fortune and didn't just inherit it from his Grandpa. They've arguably run the Bears worse than he's run the Sox over the last 30 years, which is no small feat. And that 2002 Solider Field deal is much worse for the taxpayers than the 1988 New Comiskey deal was. There's $200M MORE owed on Solider Field now than when the renovated stadium opened 20 years ago!

In that Sox Machine podcast interview, Neil deMause brought up a good point - a new stadium only has to be approved once. He said the Twins tried for 10 years to get funding for a new stadium before finally succeeding. As long as something else isn't built on the 78, it'll be an option for a new Sox ballpark.

Interesting article. So, the Related guy says the infrastructure costs are half of what Jerry said. Also, the sales tax overlay is only as a backstop for when there's a shortfall in the hotel tax (which only happened during COVID in the past). There would indeed be a riverwalk stretching all the way to Lake Street. For proponents of the 78 proposal, the less Jerry talks to the press, the better. Every time he makes a veiled threat to move, or cries how hard it is for him to compete, or blames the fans for not supporting the team, the chances of this passing drops. As far as a Bears lakefront stadium goes, is there room a hotel and entertainment district to go along with a stadium at that location as is mentioned in the article? Are they suggesting that the Sox and Bears stadiums would both be surrounded by their own entertainment district? I'm not sure about that - they aren't that far apart.

I was responding to the notion that the ISFA would take a "go f*** yourself, Jerry" stance in lease negotiations. I really can't imagine why they would. I also don't believe that JR is stupid enough to be checkmated to the point that his team would be in an Oakland A's-type "without a home" situation. That doesn't mean it's a guarantee that they'll come to a lease agreement at GRF if the South Loop project dies. I just don't think the ISFA is as bent on running the Sox out of town as some of the local talk radio guys are as well as some Sox fans on social media. There's going to be several moving parts going on in the next few years in MLB as the Sox lease ends in 2029. Will MLB go ahead and award an expansion franchise to Nashville? Does the A's move to Vegas fall apart? If so, then what? Will the Rays stadium deal fall apart (it sounds like a terrible idea to build a $1B stadium at the same location, to me) and they move to somewhere like Charlotte? I don't think it's likely that the highest bidder for the Sox will take them out of town. It's not impossible that this will happen, I just don't think it's probable.

There is no way the state is going to negotiate a new lease at GRF with Reinsdorf like that. They're certainly not going to issue some sort of "go f*** yourself" ultimatum as their opening and final offer to him since they'd much rather have the Sox remain as a tenant at GRF instead of having the park abandoned and bulldozed. Unlike some Sox fans, ISFA is not just itching to have the Sox move out of town. Also, JR isn't stupid enough to let the Sox be a team without a home. He didn't become a billionaire by negotiating in such a juvenile way. He's cold-blooded, but not a moron.

I don't remember if this was posted earlier in this thread, but I thought this was an interesting discussion on WTTW with 3 state reps (from both political parties) about the new Sox stadium request. https://news.wttw.com/2024/02/27/are-publicly-funded-stadiums-good-investment-state-lawmakers-weigh-chicago-teams-plans

There's really nothing new to report at this point. Once Jerry and Related Midwest submit a proposal with specifics to the legislature, like some state reps are asking for, then maybe we'll hear something. Even then, it'll take a while for both sides to hash things out to the point where there's an actual proposal for lawmakers to consider. So, I don't expect to hear that much new anytime soon. I doubt that'll be this spring legislative session even if Jerry wants a new park built by 2028. He's totally dreaming about that. I know the Sox lease is up in 2029, but I have no doubt that if a deal for a new park is reached and it won't be ready for 2029, that they can extend the GRF lease for a couple of years if needed.

33% of 10 million people is still a base of over 3 million people. Neither Nashville or any other of the mentioned expansion cities has a metro area over 3 million. IMO, a South Loop ballpark would have a lasting positive impact on the Sox market share in Chicago. Right now, only diehards are bothering to go to 35th St. even if it's only a few el stops away. I also wonder if it's easier for fans who live thousands of miles away to say they don't care if the Sox move to another city. I live in Chicagoland and I DO CARE if the Sox move out of town (and I don't think they're going to move).

Well, I agree that the current location is certainly better than any suburban option. It would be as if they took one of the main negatives about the GRF location and then moved the team out to some suburban oasis where it would be much worse. If the South Loop effort dies, then their best option is to stay at 35th St and push for another round of renovations IMO. It has great transit options as you said. Arlington Heights, Naperville, or Tinley Park would be a terrible place for them to relocate to although they are all wonderful places to live. The NY and LA metro area populations are about double the size of Chicago metro and can easily support 2 teams in all four major American sports. As far as the Mets go, Cohen is planning to spend $8B to develop parking lots around Citi Field. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-mets-owner-steve-cohen-announces-8b-plan-to-develop-area-around-citi-field-in-queens/4840197/

Good God, just say NO to any idea of the Sox moving out to the suburbs. That would be a total disaster and IMO , the team dodged a bullet when their site in Addison got rejected 30+ years ago. And I say this as a suburbanite who loves the suburbs. One of the big problems with GRF is that it's a ballpark surrounded by a sea of parking lots with nothing to do around it. The solution to that isn't to move them to some suburb surrounded by parking lots and strip malls. The last 30 years have shown a trend of MLB teams successfully moving closer to downtown near some night life. The Braves are the only ones that did the opposite, but Chicago is NOT Atlanta (one of the most sprawled cities in America) plus the Braves have a big entertainment district around Truist Park. I disagree that the problem with the current park is that suburbanites think the area is too dangerous. That may have been true 30 years ago, but not today. In fact, I think a lot of their fans ARE suburbanites who love being able to drive to the park because it's close to 2 expressways and is surrounded by parking lots. No, the problem is that people just aren't interested in making their way down to Bridgeport to see a game because there's really nothing else to do there. That may have been fine a few decades ago, but times have changed and these days more and more people want something to do before and after a game.

IMO, that supports the argument that JR's bluff of the team moving is just that - a bluff and they aren't moving in the first place. It would be a different story if the Sox played in a dilapidated stadium that was simply awful like the Expos and A's. Do I think the Sox franchise would be much better off with a well-designed stadium at The 78? Absolutely. But GRF isn't so bad such that MLB would approve a Sox move to Nashville or Charlotte. Plus I don't know why MLB would want to go through some convoluted scheme of letting the Sox move and pissing off 1/3 of Chicago only to put an expansion team here at the same GRF. Why not just keep the Sox in Chicago and keep Nashville open for an expansion bid?

Seriously. You'd think so judging by the reaction. Maybe these thoughts will bring some fans back off the ledge: The Governor said he needs to be convinced it's good for the state and hasn't seen that yet. He did not say anything to the effect of "no way, absolutely not in a million years regardless of the terms, we won't give a dime toward this project" MLB wants to put an expansion team in Nashville and reap an exorbitant expansion fee. I doubt the other owners would be keen on letting the Sox leave a perfectly serviceable stadium and the #3 TV market and take the Nashville market off the boards. The only 2 teams who have moved since 1972 played for years in a decrepit stadium and tried for years to get a new park in their current town. And the A's move to Vegas is hitting major roadblocks and isn't quite the done deal it appeared to be a few months ago. Until someone builds something on The 78, it's still available for a potential ballpark in the coming years even if nothing gets passed this year. A deal could be made in future years and maybe with a new owner. I have not seen JR say anywhere that his current funding proposal is his last and final offer before he brings in the moving trucks. All Pritzker's comments tell me is that he's not going to cave to JR's first proposal and give him everything he wants. He'd be a fool to say anything otherwise.

I agree. That debt is *only* $50M. If Jerry isn't willing to cover that, then the state should tell him no. JR is saving at least that much by slashing payroll after the rebuild crashed and burned. There are no term limits for Illinois Governor. Edgar chose not to seek a 3rd term voluntarily. Everyone else since him has been limited due to their incompetence and/or crookedness.

One of the things that makes fans and tax payers angry out building a publicly-funded ballpark at the 78 is that it will significantly boost the value of the Sox franchise, thus enriching JR's family and the other co-owners to the tune of hundreds of millions when the team is sold after his passing. I'm just spitballing here, but could a potential finance deal include a provision that any proceeds from a future team sale above the current franchise value (with perhaps a modest bump up) goes back to the state to pay off part of the ISFA debt? The Orioles just sold for $1.7 if I'm not mistaken. I have no idea if this scheme is even feasible and is a totally ridiculous idea, but it could be a way for the state to recover some of the cost for this project while preventing this from purely lining the pockets of JR's heirs.

A large amount of the money beyond the $1B for the stadium will go for infrastructure at the site. The big ticket items I've heard of are a Red Line subway stop at 15th and Clark, building a Riverwalk to connect the site to downtown, and realignment of the Rock Island tracks. So, it's not just running utilities through there. Those items alone will cost a ton of money (hundreds of millions I'm guessing), but will make the land more valuable for development regardless of whether the site includes a ballpark. IMO, realignment of the train tracks is a must if they ever want to fully realize the value of that property (even without a ballpark). Right now, you really can't access it from Clark St. due to the train line running right along the Clark St. edge of the 78 property. Moving and lowering the grade of those Metra tracks will be costly.

Yes, but if we keep repeating that it's a $4B handout directly to Jerry Reinsdorf, then it becomes true, right?

Oh, I agree that the veiled threat of the Sox relocating is an empty one. MLB wants to grant an expansion franchise to Nashville and not have that city taken out of consideration by a team who is leaving a huge TV market and a perfectly functional ballpark. I was just reacting to some fans who seem to be wishing and hoping for this team to move out of town rather than getting even a dime of public financing just like 95% of every other MLB teams do. I don't agree that being an AL vs an NL team matters anymore, though. Every team plays the all 29 other teams each year now. I wouldn't be surprised if MLB tries to push radical realignment at some point that will totally trash any semblance of an American League and National League.

And the owner they hate turns 88 this weekend. I can't stand him and what he's done this franchise either, but do people really think he's still going to be the owner in 10 years? He's not going to be around forever. But if the Sox move out of town, it will be forever. So diehard Sox fans should be careful what they wish for and also shouldn't be so eager to tell their state reps they're fine with the Sox leaving town....in fact they prefer it!

Maybe Jerry needs to hire a good PR guy to do all the talking to the public. Every time he opens his mouth, he pisses off and alienates the fan base. This is just who he is and he's been a walking PR disaster for 43 years. The man is completely incapable of showing even an ounce of empathy to the fans. I have to wonder if Related Midwest does a collective face palm every time they read another JR quote in the media. As someone who hopes this new park gets built, I just hope Jerry is better at talking to the politicians than he is at talking to the fans.

I agree, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. The Amazons, Foxconns, etc. get huge tax breaks. Billionaire sports owners get hundreds of millions in public funds for new stadiums, some of which only last 20 years. I agree that this sucks, but that's the way things are. As a Sox fan, I don't want my team to be the one "line in the sand" that is drawn against this. That being said, JR has to concede something. If his current ask isn't just an opening bid, but his last and final bid, then he's not going to get this approved.

That's not going to happen in a million years. The Cleveland lawsuit to keep the Browns history for an expansion team was pretty much the only time this has ever happened. Also, if the Sox move away, there's not going to be any new 2nd team coming. It'll be the Cubs only in Chicago, period. Nobody is moving here to play in Bridgeport. And yes, I totally sympathize for your reason for feeling this way!

I'm simply amazed at how many Sox fans actually want this team to move to another city than even a single public dime go to what looks like a fantastic new park. This has to be the only fanbase where die hard fans are willing to tell their elected officials to let their team leave. This isn't Cubs fans saying this, it's die hard Sox fans. Are there other fan bases where the diehards are so outraged at the idea of any public funding for a new stadium to the point of hoping their team moves away? Because just about every other team gets a ton of public money for new stadiums or massive renovations. Are Brewers, Diamondbacks, Titans, etc. fans hoping their state/city tells the team to go "pound sand" and move away? What about the Cleveland Guardians and Browns fans? I could list most MLB and NFL teams. We Sox fans must be one of a kind. And to clarify, I don't want the city/state to just had over a $1B check to JR without him spending any of his own money. That's what negotiations are for. The whole issue is very nuanced too with the hotel tax money being used and the huge debt owed on Soldier Field that the city could get some relief from with this deal. Anyone who thinks that, if the Sox moved to Nashville, the hotel tax will be redirected to much-needed social programs is fooling themselves. It'll either just go away or used to go towards Bears stadium needs.

Excellent summary. It's a very complex issue. It's not as simple as telling JR to take a jump off the top of the Sears Tower (or the GRF upper deck). I don't want a $1B hand out to him so that his family can sell the team for hundreds of millions more without him putting up a huge chuck of his own money toward this, but I can imagine there's a possible deal to be had here where both sides can get something they want.

Seems like the Bears deal is much worse. The renovated Soldier Field opened in 2003 and the McCaskeys wanted out less than 20 years later with the city/state still on the hook for $600M in payments on the Soldier Field reno. And can you imagine the outrage if it was Reinsdorf who was battling school districts now over property tax money? And I'm not saying this as a JR defender by any means. He's been a horrible owner and is now playing the "relocation" card to try to get the government to pick up the entire tab on this new stadium project.