LDF

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 07:08 PM) Hahn in the sense that he has only failed to win a pennant twice but Beane has failed to win one 15 times. ahah come on, you really don't expect to use that stat as a value answer??? there are too many intangibles in any situation that can be compare.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 07:05 PM) He is all about getting every penny he can. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/28266069-41...ml#.VIHzltLF-So i agree, even without the link for the article. btw, good reading. if JS was wanting to come back and be willing to give that discount, tell the fans what that price is or let his agent mention it. how much to sign him???

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 06:08 PM) How do you know the sox don't a shortstop besides alexei. ~1. How much have you seen semien or sanchez or even saladino play there to no even include them in the conversation. People are acting like if alexei was off the team and the Sox would get value in return then they couldn't compete. Alexei has value but not to to the point of saying we are guaranteed to win with him or without him we are guaranteed to lose. ref ~1. b/c it is up to the Sox org to continue to talk up there players. we has fans may never see any of the prospect live, but we listen to an org rep, whom we trustt, to tell us the fans. now if you say what make them wanting to tell the truth. well, lets look at Rodon, did any of the fans of this board actually seen him let alone judge based on first hand knowledge? well we believe in those who rep the org of his skills. same thing with the bigger picture. #2. at least when the sox trade Alexei to another org, if traded, the sox will be guarantee several players coming back, in the right trade. those players will fill holes. why does the org need to trade of JS, if that position can be filled by other means.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) I think it's absolutely true that Hamel would be in more demand and don't think it's all that close. People like to use WAR as a standard and Hamels almost doubled Quintana's, 6.6 to 3.5, last year, and has been a 4+ WAR 6 of the past 7 years. Plus, Hamels is just a better pitcher. Q is good. He's just not at Hamels past or present level, yet. There's nothing wrong with that. Not too many pitchers are at that level. i have 2 statements but i am using yours to address both of them. the main problem is perceptions. what are the org perception and how they want to address them. No for you, i will use an example of a couple days ago. 2 pitchers are free agent 1 is Scherzer. the other for this discussion will be Edinson Volquez. now advance stats aside, you have 2 #1 pitchers on their team. yet most will take Scherzer, i would take Voquez. the production of each may be close, but for me, that value of the contract is my deciding factors if all things being equal. that production for me will be a wash and the greater value is Edinson. i am not going to use the type of pitcher like Scherzer vs Carroll.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 06:41 PM) Hahn was dealt a pretty s***ty hand and has added a ton of talent to it in 2 years time. That'd be like comparing the Red Sox of the past 15 seasons to the Tampa Bay Rays of the past 2 years and saying "who has had more success?" but someone mention that the 2 GM has 2 pennants. that is if the whole things being equal. difference of ideas of running a team. anyway, my whole point is, i like Hahn and he got the team in a state of complete shambles. the sox didn't even have a decent pot to piss in. all this success is Hahn doing. he will build a future. As i said, Beane will constantly trade the successful pieces for younger pieces to maintain a salary the is set in stone, that salary is agree between him and the owner.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 02:03 PM) Both GM's have won the same number of pennants. and who has had most success?????

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Put them both on the open market and Hamel's is going to get the better contract and be more in demand. Part of Q's value is tied to his team friendly contract. you said his value, i disagree. it is his appeal that contract is a great contract for the team. the main problem is he is underrated. a person will not think that much of him until they see the stats for themselves.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) Agreed, it looks embarrassingly bad Jai Courtney is the actor. I do not what is fascination with him as an actor. he is Eric in Divergent. however it for me, it looks interesting. this is my opinion only.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 12:06 AM) Interesting, so that could mean, if true, that they have about $25M to play with. Of the approximate $75 million they have spent so far, how many players is that for? So if it's $75 for 11 players (just guessing), how many players from the remaining 14 that will be on the MLB roster to we project to be playing for the minimum? the system, the sox minor league system is and was bare. whether it is bare b/c of abuse or lack of production from drafted players, or lack of skilled person who draft well. that is for a whole new thread. the sox has to fill the mlb rosters with players who can play, at the same time field a team that can compete. that in itself is a daunting task.

maybe i am kind of being unrealistic here. I think acquiring Moss is the kind of move that Hahn would do. the kind of player that will fit, with what i see how the sox is establishing their philosophy, getting players who are already major league players. in other words, not trading for prospects. One main problem is what i keep on saying, iit seem that I have a theme. "At what cost would it take to get this trade done." let me also explain. if the sox had a full farm system, a system that, for an example is ranked 5-10 in all of mlb. then yes, may that trade with prospects.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 05:29 AM) They do because they can no longer afford them, if Oakland had a bigger payroll with Beane as their GM they would be able to keep said players. Yet it's amazing that every year with a payroll around $38-$45m that they're consistently on the better teams and one of best organizations in baseball. thanks and that is where i am going. Beane has no qualms of trading his players for prospect and players mix. the bottom line i was trying to point out the difference in quality in the GM's. however i am really high on Hahn.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:10 PM) The reason the Cubs dont have the "stay at home to watch them on TV" issue is because a large (much larger than the Sox) portion of their daily fanbase comes through resell and tourism. Wrigley field is basically an alcoholic version of the art institute for people coming in town. The Sox will never be able to match that. Also when the tickets are being given away its much easier to hop in a cab and head up to wrigley since a larger portion of the population lives in the area. they are the loveable losers. the sox need to improve there own system, acquire what is necessary to win another WS. then keep up the pressure. we as sox fans will prevail.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 07:16 PM) No one else is in the same league as Kershaw though. Max certainly isn't. Neither is Lester. but that won't stop Max agent to max at starting at 30 mil per, i bet.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) Sox fans will b**** just to b****. I've always tried to stay out of the attendance discussions but prior to 2005, people were wondering why nobody went. After, they said "I preferred the crowds where we had 15,000-20,000 people. It's impossible to win that one. yeah i can imagine.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 06:35 PM) I am glad someone said it. I go to about 15ish games a year. Away from the tickets in my Dad's season ticket pool, which are really expensive, I went to probably 5-7 for under 60 bucks. I bought on Stubhub just prior to the game, I bought from scalpers, I took surveys the Sox offered, etc. I don't believe the Sox can do anything more to get people into the game. They do just about everything to get a fan in for cheap. It's pretty simple. Our fans are fickle and fair weather fans. Our fans are bottom rate. That doesn't detract anything from my experience as a Sox fan. I've said it ten times and I'l say it again, I hope I am sitting with the same 15,000-25,000 people that I always sit with when the Sox are in the playoffs in 2016 (preferably '15). i have some friends who goes to the games. they pay, 25+ per. LF outfield, 3 row up. right around my old tickets. so my question is what day of the week did you go???

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 06:20 PM) We've lowered ticket prices twice over the past 5 years, where has that gotten us? And is the economy really bad today? We have the Dow closing in record highs on numerous occasions this year, gas prices dipping to record low in most states, companies ramping up their hiring plans, average MLB ticket prices are trending up year after year, decent players getting $100 million deals. I don't think the team need to cave in to the fans and reduce ticket price even further. Given our average cost of fan experience is only at league average, and costs less than the team located in a bankrupt city. I think the responsibility lies on JR. When he sees the right opportunity, he needs to open up the checkbook and get the right pieces to turn this team around, fans will come back to games when team starts competing (regardless of ticket price) and eventually he should see return on his investments. I think JR definitely realizes this, that's why you see us going after the likes of Tanaka and Scherzer the last 2 years. correct, the way, but the GM must need to recognize the time. with KW at the helm, for get it. with Hahn just maybe. Hahn has shown to judge players. let see if he can judge when to make a key decision. btw, on a sidenote, don't put too much trust in judging the economy by the gas prices. i learn too much about that.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) There was no offense to you. I read your post as either lowering ticket prices or fielding a winning team could get fans to show up. While on this subject I feel that only fielding a winning team will positively impact your attendance in the long haul. correct, but to rebuild that fan base, and due to economics today, lower them as well,

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 05:01 PM) LOWERING TICKET PRICES DOES NOT HELP. The 2006 team showed winning brings fans out, not lowered ticket prices. The ticket price were reduced sans 2010, yet our attendance gradually declined each of the past 4 years. Lower the ticket price might attract families who don't normally come out to ball games to come out once or even twice a year, but that's not the crowd you want to focus on. You want to attract fans who have money to spend to come out to the ball game consistently, like 10+ games a year. The only way to do that is to field a winning team, year in and year out. Lowering ticket price while not enjoying a positive spike in your overall attendance will put severe constraint on your budget. Your only hope is to strike gold during the draft, or be stuck in purgatory like the Pirates and Royals did for years. It is not a chicken or the situation. It is a raise the chicken healthy so it could lay more eggs situation. jeeze, if you look at the end of my post, i also mention fielding a better team.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) It's true. Laroche, while a good player, isn't going to attract extra fans to the park. Scherzer or Lester would. Shields, to a much lesser degree, might. You have to spend money to make money, right? i totally agree, good point. Getting Scherzer may kill the whole salary budget for the next several yrs. getting Lester at 23-25 is a decent price. something that will not handcuff the sox salary budget. Shield no way esp if the salary is > than 20 mil per. i would really focus on positional players. someone like Everth Cabrera or Emilio Bonifacio each maybe playing 2b or ss with Alexei moving to 2b or 3b. either way. exciting players. then in the outfield, could be one who is on the team rookies, or another player to be address via trade of what ever Hahn has up his sleeves. then pitching with Carlos Villanueva or Edinson Volquez or someone from the waiver list. just until Rodon is ready. a team of good pieces, in some areas, great additions. but the holes are filled, and have exciting players playing.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:54 PM) he is not doing anything until Lester signs. I think at the end of the day one goes to Boston the other New York. which will be closer to spring training.

wow, i can imagine a price of 30 mil per

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:43 PM) On the other hand...when the team is terrible, it also is much easier to change the channel. lol good point.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) When you consider the team-friendly deals the Sox have with Abreu, Quintana, and Sale, it's almost like free money to play with. Sign Scherzer and trade for Kemp, the Sox would have a nice 5-year window to win. bingo, the trickle down syndrome. improve 1 part and the rest of the situation will improve.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:39 PM) this brings up the vicious catch 22. the sox says, they need to raise prices b/c the cost of players salary, low attendance, the sox will need to find a way to break even. (however no mention of the commercial revenue) however, if they lower the cost, more people will show up, if the sox field a team that can compete via, fa's, the majority more of fans will show up. which came first the egg or the bird??

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 03:18 PM) And it's not like the Sox don't get paid a lot for their TV rights for this specific reason. And as long as people continue to prefer to watch that way, the compensation the Sox receive will continue to rise. sorry, its prob me, but i don;t understand.