Chisoxfn

Holy cripes, that would be amazing. But what is this ifake.net, I assume it is a legit hockey/news org.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 24, 2008 -> 12:28 PM) Agreed but, injury or not, "for a couple of weeks" doesn't really make him an "ML producer." Quentin didn't really "produce" at the ML level until this year. Too bad that the D-back gave up on him so quickly. But good for us. Everyone knew Quentin had a skill-set, but if people were trading for him based on the fact that he was an ML producer it would have cost a lot more than Carter (albeit Carter was a fair price and is a very good prospect who will likely be a top 50 prospect next season). The reality is Quentin had shown flashes and the risks a team took acquiring him was whether he could stay healthy and if in fact it was his health that had limited his production (and not the fact that he had a hole in his swing that made him a AAAA player). Everyone here was pretty excited with the deal because we knew we were getting a guy with massive "talent". I still can't call him a consistent run producer, he's had a great start and he's capable of doing what he's doing for a long time, but he's still got to build his resume.

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 24, 2008 -> 12:46 PM) Show me where it is guaranteed that Carter is going to become a stud in the majors. Where was it guaranteed that Quentin was going to turn into a stud at the major league level?

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jun 24, 2008 -> 09:59 AM) Even if you are the best player on your college team, you would be extremely lucky to get half of a scholarship. The baseball scholarship world is a very odd place. Plus, I've mentioned this before, but you don't necessarily have to be that good to get drafted in the latter rounds. At that point organizations may be looking for sure fire signings to fill organizational depth needs and if you indicate a willingness to play in the minors and have some contacts they'll take you. I had a few people I played baseball with get drafted for those exact reasons and they were not in any way shape or form what I'd consider minor league "talent". They didn't even start on our bad high school teams.

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 24, 2008 -> 11:03 AM) CQ was a first round pick and I seem to recall we got him for next to nothing. Quentin has been tremendous but it would be inaccurate to say the Sox gave him up for nothing. The prospect the Sox traded for Quentin, Chris Carter, was the 2nd best offensive prospect in the Sox system and a legitimate power prospect (ranking solely behind Josh Fields). He was young for his level and very productive. Carter was eventually traded to the A's as one of the key prospects in the Dan Haren deal. Last I looked he was raking in the minors as well. It was more the Sox dealing a top prospect for a top prospect who was closer to the majors, but had some injury question-marks which lowered his value to being the equivalent of Chris Carter. Obviously Quentin has been amazing, but I just wanted to note that they did give up a significant prospect to acquire him.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 24, 2008 -> 09:13 AM) I'm not sure if I'd use that comparison. Contreras has a long and storied history of excellence, so it's fathomable (no pun intended) that he may put up a decent season or half season. BA, on the other hand, doesn't have a history of success in the majors as a hitter. Therefore, it's understandable that people would have less faith in him. That said, he really hasn't had much of a shot and I agree that he needs more time. We probably won't know what kind of hitter he'll be until the end of next year. He was hitting the ball well a couple of weeks ago, so it's evident that he can hit ML pitching... it's just a matter of him doing it consistently. I think that a lot of BA's problems in '06 were due to his attitude. A friend of my sister's knew Anderson when he was at the U of A and what I've heard second-hand is that he was very immature back then, even by pro athlete standards. That may partially explain why Ozzie went with Mack in CF during the latter half of that year. Ozzie doesn't seem like the type to put up with rookies who have a bad attitude. From what Ozzie has said this year, it sounds like BA has matured significantly. I'm not comparing BA and Jose Contreras, rather comparing Jose Contreras and Freddy Garcia basically indicating that some poeple said they knew Garica was done. I wanted to point out that everyone at Soxtalk assumed Count was done too and that hasn't stopped him from having a very good first half of 2008.

Imus is an idiot and given his past comments I won't give him the benefit of the doubt here.

Oh man, that was hillarious. Talking about getting snipped and how his ass tastes.

I'm going to say the Anaheim Angels as the team being outscored that won it all.

I'll immediately dismiss the Phillips comparisons. Heck, in general, you take a lefty that doesn't throw 95+ and you can probably compare him to practically any other lefty in the game (as they are all in similar molds but what seperates the good ones from the bad/mediocre ones is the command, variety of pitches, and the movement). Richard has a good arm, much better than Phillips (he can hit 90 on the gun as someone pointed out as well). I have seen him throw a few times, but none recently enough where I could point out the progress he's made (that said, he's always been a prospect and it seems as he's putting himself squarely on the radar now with what has been a tremendous 08 campaign thus far). Still, I wouldn't classify him as a lock for major league success but he has a shot at it.

I'd personally go with Hossa. He's a bigger "star"/dominant player than Campbell. Plus, I think the Hawks should try to get Havlat hot early on and than sell him for something (if not sell him this off-season). The Hawks clearly need a legit defenseman but I still say they are a bit away so why not pick up a solid vet defenseman and work on turning Barker into that guy (or another in-house candidate) and save some of that money/talent to make a run at a big time goalie at the end of this upcoming season. I think the key for this year is to pick up a star that can get you to the playoffs this upcoming season and be an integral piece to a cup contending team in 09 and beyond (09 may even be a bit early), but get Skille up/Barker ready, etc this year (plus Kane/Toews more experience) and get that playoff experience, than you upgrade the goalie position and pick up another key piece (maybe a top notch defender if it doesn't look like the in-house guys will develop) and be ready to go from there.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 10:49 AM) You're sort of in the same state of mind as me it seems when it comes to DT. Until he makes a huge move, I'll take all of he and McD's comments about how there will be top tier FA's here as grains of salt. I think if we miss out on Hossa which seems likely to me, I think we will get Campbell. If NYR offers him $8 a year, I think we'll go one better. Getting into bidding wars with the Rangers is probably a bad idea. First off the Rangers are a better team and second off they have a crapload of money (not necessarily cap room, but they definately have an ownership willing to spend some serious dough) so if you offer a comparable deal it would be hard pressed for me to sign with the Hawks. Hell, lets give a baseball analogy, say you are a player, would you sign a 5 yr 40M deal with the Drays (young, up and coming team but no recent winning/proven history) or a 5yr 37M deal with a team like the Angels/Yankees/Dodgers/Mets who have all been consistent playoff teams and continually are in a position to compete. Personally speaking, assuming either way you are set monetarily, you'd probably lean hard to go with the team not named the Rays. Now you go from 5yr 35 to say 5 yrs 42-45M, well now I'm going to the Rays.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 10:38 AM) What makes you think that? The reality is better teams will offer a lot of money which means the Hawks will have to put out the top dollar offer. They are at least more attractive than they have been in years past to FA's (where they really had to offer ridiculous money) but bottom line is if they offer comparable money there is probably a more conssitent cup contender out there he'd rather go to). Not saying they have no chance because if you throw out a lot of money and mix in one or two big FA signings this year with the current young core you are talking about an improved team but the reality is until they upgrade the goalie position you aren't talking about a cup contender (Khaby isn't a stanley cup goalie anymore). So you go out and sign these two guys, you better have a plan on how your going to find your cup goalie next year (Crawford isn't it or at least not in the near future).

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 06:34 PM) I'm pretty sure that during that draft I heard the commentators saying that if you are going to play ball at a 4-year college, you can only leave to play professionally after your junior and senior seasons and if you are going to play ball at a junior college you can leave after your first or second year. I may be wrong, but I thought this is what I heard... There are exceptions but most players at a 4 year school can only leave following the junior and senior seasons. The exception are draft eligible sophmores who are a certain age by draft day or a few weeks prior to the draft (I think it is 21, but I'm not positive). If you go to a juco, you are eligible each year and high school seniors are obviously eligible. Its a pretty good rule and something I'd like to see the NBA institute. I think you shoudl be able to go out of highschool or at least commit to a minimum of 2 years (in basketball's case) of college playing time (3 years would be even better, but given the quicker impact you can make in basketball it may not be realistic).

I want to again reiterate one thing, everything you read on a forum isn't necessarily true and there is no reason to believe Silverio is anything but 17. Hint hint, read between the line's people (I'm pretty much telling you that you need to filter some of what was previously posted on here).

I love the new format which has the double throughout and than the best of 3 finale.

Locked for your viewing pleasure...oh and Sox are so gonna beat the DOdgers on tuesday and put an end to that road losing streak. In fact, I'm forecasting 2 out of 3 against the Dodgers with a slight possibility of a White Sox sweep (over the Dodgers).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially). He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th. On Mack's defensive case, I fully agree and I remember me and you being the two biggest proponents in just sticking with BA because he was easily saving a hit a game compared with Mack (cause Mack was that bad out there) and that is more than enough to make up for Brians stick (again, this didn't make BA's production acceptable, it clearly wasn't, it just made him a better option that Mack).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially). He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th. At some point in 06, wasn't Mack playing other positions so his AB's are a bit skewed (playing for Dye when Dye was out with spider backs and replacing Pods at various times through part of his injuries, although Pods 06 wasn't near as bad as his 07). I may be wrong, but I swear BA was the starter the first two months of the season and than at that point it shifted a bit more to Mack but even than you were talking much more a 50/50 split which isn't terrible or what I'd consider too little play to truly develop. Again, could be wrong, but regardless he had just over 350 ab's and played in 130 plus games which is definately a good chunk of action. And people point to his improvement the 2nd half of the season, but it should be pointed that his improve was bound to happen, you just can't be that bad for that long but his approach/swing looked as bad towards the end of the season and it did in the beginning so very few if any adjustments were made (and the reality was that lack of focus was the reason his playing time dropped, more so than the lack of production).

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:15 PM) Ramirez is a dead pull hitter as well, that's not stopping him from hovering around .300. Plus the dude has never his ML pitching before this year. I don't know if I"d call Ramirez a dead pull hitter. He's shown opposite field power and I've seen tons of hits back up the middle. That said, the past week or so his swing has gotten a bit longer. Still, he's a pretty pure hitter so to speak and I definately wouldn't classify him as a pull hitter (that said there is still a lot ot learn about this guy as the scouts are getting a better book on him and he's going to have to make some adjustments and improve in his strike zone recognition and ability to hit the breaking ball). ALso, as he plays more he should gain more comfort regarding some of the pitchers he's facing.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:11 PM) There's nothing stopping me from comparing the two. I've never advocated starting Brian over Swish, and, ask anyone, I carry Brian's jock more than anyone. BA should be starting now that PK is hurt, and always in CF (not sure why he wouldn't), but he's a solid 4th OF option. His biggest problem right now is that he's DEAD pull. He's getting by on hits between SS and 3B. He's eliminated a bit of the hole in his swing, but I'd like to see him spray the ball more. Of course, he's pressing, because he knows his ABs are limited, and he still fully thinks he's capable of starting. Anderson is an even money lock to hit a soft grounder to 3B practically every time. His swing is improved but its rather disgusting watching him hit because he really doesn't use any of the field. He needs consistent playing time but I don't know if it should be at the major league level (although I have zero problem playing him every day while Paulie is on the DL, because if he sticks you win. That said Wise isn't near as bad as some of you say and he's had a great approach up at the plate thus far). Still, the long-term benefit is in BA, but he clearly isn't near as polished a hitter as Wise (but most major leaguer's or even bench players are more polished than Anderson...hell a lot of minor leaguers are to be honest).

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:06 PM) Just to be fair, it was pretty obvious to everybody here back in '06 that Garcia was in rapid decline. He pitched with a ton of heart that year, but he was reduced for getting hitters out with junk. +1 If for no other reason that we don't have another ML-ready natural CF in the organization. Anderson has shown enough thus far to merit a spot as a 4th outfielder, IMO. This is true, but lets think back to the end of last year. Jose Contreras after being absolutely horrid puts together a few solid starts in a row. People like me think they need to do everything possible to get rid of him (reality was no one would have taken him as now people are putting a much greater focus on prospects) but instead the Sox stick with him and he's at least given us a quality half of a season (still have no idea what we get from him last year) when everyone here wrote him off for dead (despite him being much improved after his short benching last year). So while we thought Garcia was dead (and I had zero problem moving him, just as I'd have zero problem moving Contreras now for something valuable while you can, although if your a competitive team it may not be a great move or a good sign to the fans), there was legitimate reason to think he'd figure things out (fatigued arm would get better and he had nothing but a tremendous track record, plus the reality was the Phillies weren't giving up some premiere prospects, Floyd was a project who was not going to make it in Philly and Gio was a B prospect (not a knock on Gio, he's just not an upper echelon prospect, although he's a legit major league prospect with a lot of value).

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) The difference is, I have nothing invested in him. I'm not hanging on to the tiny shread of hope that this kid may, MAY, just one day get it. I have the easy job. I can just wash my hands of him because I have nothing to lose. That's the difference, smart guy! The thing is, his value outweighs his worth on the trade market. No team is going to give up much to get him, at best you'd get a former first round pick who failed (and to a degree, Kenny has had success with this in the past in the Floyd deal (although at that time Garcia was talent) but more specifically in the Thornton deal (1 busted first rounder for another in Joe Borchard). Bottom line, unless the right deal came along (and rarely do they), the only thing you'd get is a potential fringe prospect at best and when you compare that to Anderson's worth (even right now, he's got a spot on a 25 man roster, at least on an NL team in the pinch run/defensive replacement mold) who has at least the ability to be a .270, 20-25 HR, gold glove centerfielder. Again, I'm not saying it will happen, but Gary Matthews Jr. was a pretty talented guy that took a while to develop (you could make the case that even now he's not that great, but he has some value and given Anderson's defensive ability, if he could put up stats to a similar mold as the average GMJ it wouldn't be terrible). Again its a bit of a stretch given Matthews is a very patient player so he can get away with his lower average to an extent (although there is no denying his career has been poor for most of his career with a couple good years in between (texas) which led to him getting an inflated contract.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 09:46 AM) My point in comparing Anderson to Crede is that we need to have patience with young players who struggle. Now is the perfect opportunity (with Konerko on the DL) to give Anderson some meaningful, consistent playing time. He's not hurting us defensively, and isn't killing us offensively. Sadly, on any given day, he has one of the top 6 averages in our line-up. Let's see what he can do with two weeks of at bats. If he plays well, he can get 3 or 4 starts a week in center while we rest Dye, Swisher, Quentin and Konerko the rest of the way. Great post and I agree with this to an extent. The problem is Anderson is in a bit of a rut as he hasn't gotten consistent playing time and I really believe the only way to get him out of it is by letting him stink for a couple weeks of starting or sending him down to the minors. He's just in a very tough spot but I must commend him for handling things very well, which is something he hasn't done in the past. I'm really hoping he can suceed because he has a lot of natural ability.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 09:44 AM) The thing about his "full season" is that it wasn't full. He could hardly get a streak of consecutive games played without sitting out a day for Brian Mackowiak. Not only would that disrupt rhythm, but also perhaps confidence. Another fact that was virtually ignored by the White Sox was that he batted .257 the second half of 2006. .257 is very respectable, especially at the stage of development he was at. But all the Sox looked at was the overall .225, which was concerning but not representative of the strides he made. I think this is a bit of a myth. He started pretty consistently the first few months of the season and at one point the Sox finally had to make an adjustment and started running Mack out there a bit more, but even at that point you were still getting 4 starts or so out of Brian in every 8 games which is nothing too bad (given how much he played the first couple months of the season). So the reality is he had quite a bit of playing time that first year. Last year was essentially wasted due to injuries and this year it is hard for him to truly develop and improve his swing since he's had limited AB's (the thing is, he's definately made strides/progress with it, but he's never going to master it in-season as there is only so much cage work you can do and at one point you got to refine and complete it facing live competition). The honest truth is the best thing that could happen to Brian would be him spending the 2nd half of the year (until around September) in Charlotte (unless of course he gets a hot streak and can battle his way into a starting spot right now) with the Sox utilizing Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise (Wise being the defensiev guy) in the outfield. I actually could see something like this going down if Owens can ever get healthy (heck the Sox could even bring up Richar and use Ramirez still as the starter but Richar playing some 2B/SS/3B (with Ramirez ocassionally pitching in in cf).