Chisoxfn

I'd prefer neither myself. I like Thome but I think a trade involving him can help set the franchise up for another long term run of success.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) I'd carry him the second half of the way there. If Jenks has as much trade value as Stone lets on then I'd be 100% for moving him before the season is through. I agree, you can likely find some power arms via other trades (maybe guys like Craig Hansen who could be future closers or Devine or someone else). If Jenks is that valuable you sell, especially considering the reality is he is definitely injury prone (but you only sell if you get wowed, no need to force yourself into a deal). Hell you could always sell Jenks high and buy Lidge low (that is if the Sox have the idea of taking a s***load of young talent, evaluating it, keep some of it, move some of it for more experienced guys or other young talent that fills a need, sign a couple FA's, and throw up a competitive ball club again next year).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) You mean 1B - Thome (35 games), DL - Thome (127 games), DH - Thomas. Right? The guy is not an everyday 1B anymore and Konerko is a better bet to produce consistently from 2006 on than Frank Thomas. The only difference between Paul Konerko and Frank Thomas' 2007 numbers right now is Thomas' 10 extra walks and 4 extra HBP. That's it. Same amount of HR, same batting average, same SLG. That and Konerko is far more likely to rebound and be one of the better run producing players in the game (just like he usually is....not the upper echelon, but just a notch below it, imo).

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) As a hypothetical situation Boers and Berstein had Stone on and asked him "would you trade Bobby Jenks for Grady Sizemore?" Stone said Cleveland would in a heartbeat and personally send the plane...Hell I think I would be tempted by that offer for Sizemore...never going to happen of course but it was interesting. Geeze...I'd do that deal in a nanosecond as well. The more I think about it...if you could get a Wood/Adenhart/Additional Prospect or two for Thome, plus a Sizemore or say a Salty/Escobar/One More Deal for Jenks than you have essentially gotten two very good middle infield prospects (Wood/Salty and obviously if you are capable of playing SS you can always slide the other to 2nd or in Wood's case 3rd with Fields shifting to LF) plus you get your catcher of the present and future as well as a power arm or two (Adenhart has front of the rotation stuff). That is two deals that load you up a boatload and than you have Buehrle/Contreras/Iguchi/Dye left to move to fill things up. That would be a serious overall, but one capable of bringing in tons of MLB ready talent (some of which stays, some of which goes to get you other pieces during the off-season so a young team can begin to potentially contend).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) I still really like Brandon Wood even if he has struggled a bit this season, that power potential is still very much there. Wood, Another Young player, Jose Arredondo, and Hank Conger would do it for sure. That would damn near restock the system. It would be amazing. Part of me asks what happens if the Angels come to Kenny with a similar deal for a guy like Konerko (who is the face of the franchise, but everyone has to potentially be available). I still say Thome needs to be moved if you can get him to agree to a deal. He would command a ton of in return (plus he's still signed for another season).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) I still really like Brandon Wood even if he has struggled a bit this season, that power potential is still very much there. Wood, Another Young player, Jose Arredondo, and Hank Conger would do it for sure. s***...I'd be stoked with Wood and Adenhart. Both are high upside but neither is guaranteed success (than again who is).

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) Well, I'm working on signing 3 players for the White Sox in China. If KW or Laumann doesn't listen to me, I'll send them the Royals' way. LOL. Actually, the Yankees signed the first two last week, and the Red Sox and Dodgers are already making inroads as well here. Are you serious? You working on becoming an agent?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) As Thome's #2 fan on the site I'll answer this question. If someone is willing to give up 2 big time prospects, I mean 1 of them would have to be a major league ready position player with HUGE upside and the other a very highly touted but maybe not quite as polished player as well as an A baller or 2 I'd pull the trigger. Would Earvin Santana and Brandon Wood meet that description (albeit Wood's status has dropped off a bit). Or maybe Howie Kendrick and prospects?

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) Is that not where he made his mega millions before he blew ARod and got Hicks to give up the farm? I'm not sure. I always thought Boras was just involved with baseball, but I'm not positive about that. I know Lee Steinman is/was the super agent in football (but Rosenhaus has kind of came in and stolen some of his thunder).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) I f***ing hate Andy Gonzalez. The fact that he's starting and batting second is a complete f***ing joke, he should be in AA. Honestly I don't like Gonzalez, but I don't mind playing him just to see if he could be a worthy backup (but first lets get Iguchi's ass shipped out of here). Oh and I'd much rather see Gonzalez than Cintron.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) And to be honest, I hope other teams follow suite. It's about stopping Boras from demanding outrageous amounts of $ for unproven ML talent. If everyone tells him to kiss their asses, either he'll stop making insane demands for MLB players, or they won't hire him. He makes way more off football players anyway. I wish he would stick to them full time. Does he represent the football players or is it his agency that does that?

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Then the Rangers are more screwed up than even the White Sox if they think taking Ivy League MBA/Marketing/CEO types will ever lead to MLB success from a GM standpoint. I am still waiting to receive an offer to be a GM. I'd sign for less than market value.

Holy crap. They must have had some sort of chemical in there house that poisoned them or something.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:57 PM) Why should Briggs be expected to take a discount? The Bears have offered him market value...he thought he was worth more. Briggs is entitled to get frustrated but the Bears haven't done anything wrong (and briggs is obviously entitled to his opinion as he always had shut up and play and now feels worthy of that major deal that enables him to be secure for the rest of his life).

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head. Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay. Did I read something wrong because I swear I saw on a ticker somewhere that Daniels signed or was close to signing an extension with the Rangers? Edit: He signed a one year extension on June 19th

I have doubts as to whether Buehrle is around. I think Dye sticks around a while longer as teams are going to want to see him healthy before they are willing to give up what Kenny wants (otherwise you are best Dl'ing him, letting him get healthy in order to make sure he can play late this year and be 100% over the off-season. Than take your two draft picks for him as he will likely go to a team picking in the lower portion of the draft (ie >15).

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) Based upon Williams' past history, I'm guessing there will be several names thrown into trade packages who were previously undiscussed. Garland, Contreras, Anderson, Carter, Haeger It also wouldn't shock me if at one point Williams sold some prospects that he isn't personally as eye on in order to get other talent that he thinks will help the team. And Flash...I just want to say I'm pretty much going to be in unison in terms of ripping the Sox if they don't get the appropriate package for some of these guys (there is no reason to force the issue with Dye or Buehrle as they will equate to picks of some sort). I could see selling Guchi or Uribe or guys like that for a little less than we may expect, but not Dye/Buehrle and I would love to see us get an upper echelon guy for Jose but I'd also be happy with a high upside lower level guy or two (as long as they truly had high upside). Oh and with all the money saved, go spend a few mill extra on the draft next year (as well as throw 6 figures the way of our 20th or so round pick whose name escapes me at the moment).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) Yeah, I think Seay was the straw that broke the camel's back. In retrospect, Boras did the Sox a favor with that one though. Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust). However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system). I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did. QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:48 PM) The nice thing is that this off season, I don't see many of your listed teams spending big except the usual culprits (Yanks and Sawks). Cards have been crying poor the last few off seasons. Cubs have their hands tied somewhat with an impending sale. I don't see the Angels as needing to spend a ton of money. And just a hunch, the Tiger don't have a lot of holes and the are not going to go to Yankee level payroll. Borass may have some limits this off season. It will be really interesting to see what happens if ARod files. Speaking of which, are the Rangers abstainers from Boras clients since the Arod debacle? I can't think of any exceptions. Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands).

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:41 PM) It gets mentioned with Baltimore, but they lust after Teixera and just drafted Wieters, so they're definitely willing to make exceptions. Obviously Matt Bush went 1 bc Boras was repping Weaver and Drew. Not sure if that's still true for SD. A lot of talk that the Orioles took Weiters partly to open up/establish a relationship with Boras in preparation for the mega contract they will offer Tex. Weiters is a stud too, well worthy of where he was drafted (best catching prospect since Mauer). QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:40 PM) Didn't realize that he has nothing to do with the one-year deals prior to FA, although it makes sense. I can understand why the Sox wouldn't want to negotiate with Boras after drafting a high pick (e.g., Jeff Weaver), but if I were KW I'd just bite the bullet when it comes to the signing bonus, knowing that they're saving a ton of money by not negotiating with Boras during FA. I think the Sox were more upset with the Bobby Seay situation. Boras basically maneuvered around the system and the end result was Seay getting a fat deal to spurn the Sox and sign with the Devil Rays. Edit: At least I think it was Boras that rep'd Seay at the time.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) Interesting. If more teams besides the White Sox (and possibly Dodgers) were more opposed to Borass clients, he may have a more difficult time being the "super agent". Until then, the White Sox are missing an attractive portion of the market. ... Or his clients may be missing playing in a great situation. As long as the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs and to a lesser extent Angels, Tigers and Cards are willing to deal with you than you really are still a super agent. The bottom line is Boras clients typically are going to get major bucks and when that is the place the likely destination is inevitably to pretty much these places and these places only (with the rare exceptions such as the Mariners going heft for Adrian Beltre). Obviously not all the guys he reps are like that but the vast majority that he hard lines with are.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) You shouldn't read something into a written post. Maybe I should have used I don't think I ever have talked bad about a fellow soxtalk poster Oh ya, I kind of figured you were making a point based on some of the other posters on the site making generic comments similar to that so I figured I'd make a generic post back (in no way was I meaning to imply you as one of those that calls other people bad fans...in fact you have long been one of the posters that I think exemplifies this place).

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) Some posts have implied, but I am curious. Are there any other teams openly opposed to dealing with Boras? I don't think any are as open with it but I know the Dodgers have been trending away from Boras clients in the recent years (since Ned Colletti took over). In the past the Dodgers were almost entirely repped by Boras (them and the Cubs probably have had the most Boras clients over the past 5-10 years). I would also imagine that quite a few other teams are far more opposed than the Sox openly admit when it comes to negotiating with Boras clients (pretty much most of the non 80 mill plus payroll teams). QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) Eh, that's usually not much of a problem. They were able to sign Crede to two 1 year contracts during his first two ARB eligible seasons with no problem. Usually Boras doesn't even get involved in the 1 year ARB eligible contracts, he just lets an associate work those out. Scott boras really only gets involved with big time draft picks and big time free agents. He has far too many clients to be worrying about a couple arb eligible players. In the past that was different, but he has lost a bit of power in the draft since he has so many major high profile players that are set to make a lot more money. It was earlier in his career where he really caused some major headaches for teams in the draft (not quite as much lately...he can still be tough on ocassion though, hence Weaver and Drew dropping a couple years back).

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) Wouldn't Boras be involved in negotiating Danks' contract during the arbitration-elibible years? That's what I was referring to. If not, my mistake. Yes, but either way all if the two sides disagree you just go to arbitration. You also have to remember the Sox dealt with Boras in regards to Crede with arbitration and were able to work out deals.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:21 PM) You HAVE to make it to the game. A true Sox fan will go to any game he/she can get to even if the team sucks at the time. I just want to say that I think any of us that have been coming to this place consistently over the years are clearly Sox fans. No reason to think one of us is any better than the other.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:22 PM) Thanks for the info Kalpse. I just don't agree with the whole not dealing with Boras idea. To me it comes across as cheap, this years draft was a perfect example. We drafted the Poreda kid instead of the Porcello kid just because he is represented by Boras. But then the Tigers go ahead and draft Porcello. We are in the 3rd largest market in the U.S. you would think if Detroit can afford to deal with Boras, we should be able to. Boras always seems to have the most talented players, but we refuse to deal with him. I just don't get it. That said, look how many teams made the same decision. You should deal with Boras if the demands are worthy but if drafting the Boras client is going to cost you way more than the player is worth or prevent you from being able to go above slot money later on in the draft than it is a mistake. I just think the Sox should take it on a case by case basis. I also think they are pretty accurate in terms of not dealing with Boras in free agency, but they shouldn't just ignore the player. No reason you don't make contact if a player interests you, but if it is going to be a poor financial/baseball decision to give them the money the player is asking than you move on and find someone else (but you should at least take the time to inquire).