Chisoxfn

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:06 AM) I seem to recall him pitching a pretty dominant game against us. Should we give this guy a call? Thats what I was wondering. When healthy Hernandez is pretty talented. Could be one of the few bargains out there.

I got to say one thing...I'm all giddy to see what happens next. No matter how many trades I've been a part of on ST, with each new trade comes that whole its christmas time feeling all over again (even if I completely hate a trade...which has rarely happened during Kenny's tenure). The two exceptions are the deals we made with Pitt (Ritchie deal and the Marte deal) and I leaned towards anger over the Vazquez deal but also admitted its the type of move that could have paid of big time and considering the types of contracts FA pitchers are getting now I'm much more of a fan of the deal cause it gives us Vaz for at least one more year (and we can go arb with him the following year) and at the same time I still think we can move Vaz and get more than what we gave up for him (cause I think Pelfrey and something else would be >>> Chris Young).

Wow...5 years for a guy as prone to injury as Meche. He has a great arm but this is a confusing move. Of course if they spin him off for prospects later on in the year I buy into it but wow not a fan of this one. Than again I at least tip my hat to the Royals for spending money (I just think they could do it wiser).

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) And yet, we are STILL basing Floyds numbers on half a season with Philly, as a 23 year old, with 108 IP career in the majors....Awesome foresight!! My favorite part of Floyd is that he has consistently thrown right around 170 innings of work so his arm should be relatively strong and capable of handling a full season if need be. I'm excited to see him get to work with Coop (cause the Phils pitching coaches have been pretty terrible) and just get a fresh start. He was rushed and never overcame that and now gets to come to a new place where he'll have a hell of a lot pressure (considering whether we keep our 4 remaining starters or not...he'll still be at worse the 5th starter). QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 07:19 AM) On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct. However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done. Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions. Thats the issue, the White Sox don't go more than 3 with there arms because of the incredible risk of handing out long term deals to pitchers (who are more prone to career ending or career altering injuries). Kenny has now seen that he won't be able to get his guys to agree to these type of extensions so with that he knows now is his window to try and get him enough young arms to help him not only now but in the future while still fielding a club perfectly capable of winning the division (and that is the goal..get in the playoffs and see what happens from there).

QUOTE(philadelphia sox fan @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 07:13 AM) Chicago got a wonderful pitcher in Gio Gonzalez. I'm from Reading, Pennsylvania, which is where he pitched all season, and he was the most entertaining pitcher the r-phils had. I'm sad to see him go but I'm glad he's goin to the White Sox. I guarentee he will be in the majors either later this season or the start of next season. Welcome aboard...thanks for your input, always good to hear from someone who got to watch Gio pitch. In Freddy's case if he comes back with his old velocity you guys have one of the best pitchers in the NL on your hands. However, if he doesn't...you'll have a guy who flashes signs a couple games while at other times gets absolutely lit up. That said when on, Freddy is fun to watch.

Apparently Kenny watched a lot of fall league games and got to see both Floyd and Gio in action. Gio has made a lot of strides with his changeup to give him 2 plus pitches (curve and changeup) to go along with his 91-93 MPH fastball. And Floyd has a nasty sinker and really needs a change of scenery to go with a huge big breaking curveball (that looked damn good when I saw him pitch a couple times for the Phillies). I remember watching Floyd pitch a good deal early on when he came up and I thought wow this guy will be good. Its taken a while and he's obviously had control and mechanical flaws, but he's still fully capable of being a front of the line guy. I'm surprised cause I was one of the people b****ing heavily about dealing guys just for prospects but if I understand Kenny's philosphy (based on the Rogers article) things are starting to make some sense and I really don't mind this.

QUOTE(BHAMBARONS @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:17 PM) According to radio here either KW or JB rejected a Owings, Callaspo and Hairston deal. I am glad though that deal didn't go down though. Personally I prefer the deal the Sox made because we got two arms with front of the rotation stuff.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:15 PM) Yes, but the Cell is such a launching pad compared to San Fran. I try to watch as many Bonds at-bats as possible, and it's amazing the warning track power that he had last year. If he hits those same balls at the Cell, a good handful of them are in the seats. Plus it looked as if he was just starting to get healthy last season. The only down side in having Bonds is that we also have Thome and with that Bonds would have to play in the field. I think if we could have had him DH for part of the time it would be an absolute no brainer because the DH spot would help him stay healthy and really allow him to produce. Of course if he is healthy enough to play 135-140 games (some as a DH) having him, Thome, Konerko and Dye would be absolutely ridiculous and would completely allow the team at least time to allow the young pitchers Kenny acquires to develop into the back end of the rotation.

QUOTE(PK14 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:56 PM) I agree. If he didn't get hurt I would have been all for it. I'm totally with you on that as well. By the way, welcome aboard QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:13 PM) I'm not going to say anything personally, but what happened to all the trash talking about Javier around here? Perhaps it's not an option, but on paper, I'd much rather have Mulder than Vasquez in our rotation. The problem is, as Kalapse pointed out, that Mulder will not even be ready to pitch until June (at the earliest). A healthy Mulder is better than almost anyone in our rotation (and most any rotation in baseball) but he hasn't been healthy in a couple years.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) "What we'd be talking about honestly are numbers and years I'm not comfortable with," Williams said about contract extensions before agreeing to the Garcia trade. How much are you willing to pay Freddy. How about a nice 5 year 75 million dollar deal. Do you think that Wiliams balked at a 3 year 30 million dollar deal? They had a talk with Garcia and he said JACKPOT, and we ditched him. But I agree with you, the draft pick would of been a better long term option. On the draft pick thing I don't think we would have gotten two arms as talented as Gonzo and Floyd in the draft (considering the Phils pick would probably be in the 20's and than the sandwich pick is a late 1st). I think the guys we have now are both top 15 talent as is (in terms of draft position and obviously Floyd was the 4th overall pick). Gonzo would have been top 15-20 had it not been for his mom/brother.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) If we trade another starter, then who's our 5th starter? One of the prospects we get back. I'd actually prefer to move Vazquez and than find a way to lock up Buehrle (because i think Vaz will be getting a ton of money when he goes to arb in a year and I'd prefer to just get Buehrle that money now if possible).

Oh my god...I'm giddy...Bonds...YESSS, DO IT DO IT DO IT. Like I said, if we want to go with the theory of developing some young pitching, give ourselves a nasty offense and no better upgrade than adding Bonds to a potent lineup and at 10 mill for 1 year its a bargain, imo (even though some people would say this is negative PR wise in the case of Bonds I stick to the old adage of any type of PR is good PR).

Holy crap...hold me I'm scared, you prospect people may win out and the Sox may very well suffer. All I can say is this, if the Sox are going to go with that approach we should deal Buehrle this off-season and ensure we get ourselves one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball for him (and I'm sure the Mets would give up Pelfrey to get him...maybe not much else, but we'd at least be able to get Pelfrey). Maybe even Pelfrey and Burgos (or however you spell it) who they just acquired from the Royals, two guys that are young and would fit in nicely. I know one thing...Kenny seems to be taking a Billy Beane stance and if we bank on this we need to ensure we get as many talented arms as possible and make sure this offense is equipped to hammer if it doesn't work out. Technically speaking it may not be the worse idea in the world...but there are others I'd prefer. Still right now I think this team is still fully capable of winning it all and even with a trade of Buehrle (yes things would get tougher) but it would be able to as long as it was able to find a way to fill a couple holes in the lineup. But man I'm scared cause I hate to see the Sox do anything that would cause a public relations nightmare that would bury this team in the city spotlight. QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) I hate the deal, but where does Phil get that there is no chance of bringing back the other starters? Apparently Kenny said something. But maybe it's just Kenny posturing, who knows.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:49 PM) After the Garcia trade, my opinion is that the you're going to have to lower your desired package by a lot. That could be true but I still think Buehrle has more value than Garcia. And let me say the only way I'm a proponent of dealing Mark is if he was honest and said he wants to break the bank this contract since it will be his last one (which I'd respect).

QUOTE(supernuke @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:48 PM) Does anyone know if it is possible that another team could select Gio in the ruleV draft? He will not be taken in the Rule V. I'm 99% sure he's not even eligible to be taken. Its just a formality we have to wait.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:46 PM) So what if KW had a chat with Buerhle and Garcia and both of them said, thanks but no thanks I want to make megabucks next year. So getting one year out of the two of them, and then neat sandwich draft picks is so much better than ditching them now and getting something in return that can help us be competitive for the next 4 years. The people that are saying go for it this year without thinking about next year, are the same people who said I dont care if the sox suck for 5 years as long as they win one championship in my lifetime. Well guess what, I was still greedy after the one championship as you are all now. If thats the case, than we deal Buehrle for Pelfrey and Heilman or Pelfrey & Milledge or swing him for Sanchez, Melky and someone else from the Yanks. Than you end up having Jose, Garland and Vaz in your rotation as the veteran 3 and than see what sticks with the other two knowing that Floyd, Bmac, Pelfrey are all potential top of the line rotation guys and behind that you'd have Gio/Broadway/Haeger (two of which are again at least middle of the rotation and in Gio's case potential #2). As long as Kenny spends that extra 20 million saved on finding a way to fill a couple holes we still have offensively I'd live with it.

On a sidenote...I want to see what happens first. I think if we did move Mark, we'd have tons of money freed up to be able to acquire someone like Vernon Wells for some of our prospects and hopefully keep one or two of them and we'd have the money to sign him if the club wanted to. However I think Buehrle either agrees to an extension quickly or he will be on his way to New York.

Holy crap...hold me I'm scared, you prospect people may win out and the Sox may very well suffer. All I can say is this, if the Sox are going to go with that approach we should deal Buehrle this off-season and ensure we get ourselves one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball for him (and I'm sure the Mets would give up Pelfrey to get him...maybe not much else, but we'd at least be able to get Pelfrey). Maybe even Pelfrey and Burgos (or however you spell it) who they just acquired from the Royals, two guys that are young and would fit in nicely. I know one thing...Kenny seems to be taking a Billy Beane stance and if we bank on this we need to ensure we get as many talented arms as possible and make sure this offense is equipped to hammer if it doesn't work out. Technically speaking it may not be the worse idea in the world...but there are others I'd prefer. Still right now I think this team is still fully capable of winning it all and even with a trade of Buehrle (yes things would get tougher) but it would be able to as long as it was able to find a way to fill a couple holes in the lineup. But man I'm scared cause I hate to see the Sox do anything that would cause a public relations nightmare that would bury this team in the city spotlight.

QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:25 PM) Ok use those stats. take last years. Again use what you want but he still has not proven himself. Again, I wouldn't mind him being a fifth starter if we would have gotten a bit more in return to fill the other holes we have. I am not argueing Mcarthy, I am argueing the trade. Funny 9-10ths of the people here hate this trade but it seems as if people take exception with my comments. I think this deal isn't awful, especially if it gives the Sox the ability to resign Buehrle or make another move. However, it would have been nice to get one more part (even if that part was Aaron) out of it. That said I like the idea of Floyd and Gonzo being back in the system. I'm still not sure how good Gonzo will be, but he impressed me in his past season and he's continued to remain durable (which is one major concern I've long had with Gio). He has a sick curve and his velocity has been steadily on the rise as well (last I heard)...well not steadily but its in what I'd deem an acceptable range. The guy is easily as good of a prospect as Hirsch (especially upside wise) who you all were drooling over and I'd personally prefer Floyd's arm to a lot of other guys. Basically if we made a deal with the Mets we'd have gotten Heilman/Pelfrey or Humber. I'd prefer any deal that netted us Pelfrey because I think he's the closest to a sure thing of any of the spects this team could have acquired. However I'll take Floyd/Gio over Heilman/Humber because I think while Humber is talented and Heilman is solid...Floyd and Gio both have the upside to be a front of the rotation guy. Still...Kenny probably could have gotten one more guy out of this deal, even a mid level guy (that said should a mid level guy really be a deal breaker....we are getting two damn good arms in this deal, even though one of them's value is at an all time low).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:23 PM) Andrew Miller and Ledezma could be solid. I really really like Ledezma. He's a guy thats struggled at times for the Tigers but has one hell of an arm and should be a pretty darn good major leaguer. Another guy if I were an opposing GM that I would target.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:22 PM) No, but Kenny Rogers is going to start declining one day or another, I still don't think Robertson is a good pitcher, who knows how Maroth will come back and Zach Minor is a bum. The only two pitchers I'd have confidence in if I'm a Tigers fan are Bonderman and Verlander. I agree and they keep talking like Bonderman may get run out of town soon enough (which would be absolutely stupid). Its too bad cause if there was one arm I'd be after, I'd do all I could to get Bonderman (if in fact the Tigers are really considering moving him). And I'm not talking about the White Sox perspective (since the Tigers aren't about to deal with Chicago).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:19 PM) Good question. Everyone is talking about acquiring a hitter, but I think Williams still might have his eye on a pitcher. I'm not smart enough to say who that is, but maybe he still has his eye on Lackey or Santana from Anahiem. Maybe they balked at Garcia and wanted someone else. The extra $10 million does confuse me, though, unless they go out and ink Bonds in the next hour, but that's just me 'dreaming', as I doubt both JR and Kenny would say that Bonds isn't coming here only to ink him less than 24 hours later. What about a 3 way with the Angels and Dbacks that net us Santana or Lackey and Chad Tracy...Angels getting Crede and something (maybe even a Haeger)...Dbacks getting Broadway or something like that.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 09:14 PM) Keith, what are we going to use the 10 mill on though? That was off the books next year anyways and right now there is absolutely nothing to make this team better in the free agent market. I think we will hear about Mark Buehrle's fat contract extension pretty soon.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 08:47 PM) Here's my ideal move: Fields and Floyd for Baldelli, Sox re-sign Crede. I think that very well could happen and no way would the Rays turn that down, imo. We hold onto Gio who may very well make his major league debut out of our pen this year as we continue to groom him. That or we may be about to resign Buehrle.