Chisoxfn

QUOTE(atrain081 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) strong words lol You guys don't have to worry about him anymore. He is just trolling and that isn't something thats tolerated.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Its probably also worth noting that at least one of his major injury problems in the past has been, by a couple of sources I read yesterday, due in part to bad Mechanics (helped lead to his elbow problem in 04). As we've seen before, and recently, bad mechanics are things that can be fixed by the right pitching coach. Cooper now has a heck of a glut of talent in that bullpen to work with. Hopefully he has enough time in the day to deal with them all, especially given where the starters are right now. Oh, and his injury problems have in the past contributed to all those blown saves people were talking about a few posts ago. Mechanically he's made a few changes, but the key will obviously be watching him carefully and I'm sure Coop has already been looking at film to see if there is anything that really stands out. Sometiems a change of perspective can help. Plus after two injuries I'm sure he'd be willing to listen. Its a risky move but there is no doubt this guy has an arm that would make him one of the best relievers in baseball if he stayed healthy and threw strikes.

QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Heath Phillips and Chuck Haeger maybe, what about Jeff Farnsworth? They did lose Majewski earlier this season in a trade with the Reds. If it was Pods, Broadway and one of Haeger/Phillips I'd consider the deal a relative steal simply because I don't see Phillips having an impact with the White Sox nor do I see Haeger. Thats not saying they won't be good major league pitchers, but the thing is they don't have a place here. If it was Haeger or Phillips, Broadway and Fields...that seems like fair value on both sides, but I'd love it if we didn't have to give up one of Fields/Broadway. On a sidenote, I'd rather trade Fields but I think the Nats want pitching more than hitting. However, Jerry Owens (once traded by the Nats) is a kind of throw in that could intrigue them.

QUOTE(BDavisFutureHOF @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Unless I am out of the loop -- the one name that I haven't heard Kenny completely shoot down is Sweeney. Did miss something? Maybe a package starting with Pods, Sweeney and Haegar Sweeney and Fields aren't apparently safe (doesn't mean they are) as is BMac and the rest of the ML rotation. Some reports say Broadway is untouchable as well, but I think thats a negotiating ploy and if he is untouchable, it tells me the Sox really like him as a prospect (which I'd consider a good thing). QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:40 PM) You're right. Soriano is a better defender than Podsednik. GET'EM KENNY! They both get lousy jumps, the only difference is Soriano is actually new to the position so he could actually improve. Plus Soriano has a pretty solid arm and has been able to throw guys outs, something Pods could do to save his life.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:17 PM) Tim is on ESPNnews now talking about it. Not much of an update, said Nats-Sox trying to find a 3rd guy to add to deal since no BMac. Said it still could happen. So, nothing we didn't know. It sounds like the holdup is who the 3rd guy would be. I have no idea if the first two are Fields and Broadway or some other combo (not including Felds but rather Pods) and than the question is who the 3rd prospect is. Either way its very interesting and I think in general it could help to get a few fresh attitudes/faces in here to try and break up the downer the clubhouse has become during this slump. I'd really love it if a real jokester would be out there that could come in and losen the clubhouse. QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:27 PM) Podsednik and prospects, if the media reports are to be believed, Washington asked for Broadway and KW said no. Basically this is a poker game right now. Washington wants pitching prospects that are a year or two away, if not 2007 ready. One things certain, they want guys that will be able come up this year or next year. Its pretty evident that they don't want 2008 or later guys because if that were the case they'd might as well get the first round draft picks and test there luck with those. That makes me think, unless its a final prospect, all of the guys included would be in AA or higher.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Here's Keith Law's (ESPN) take on the trade. I think this guy is a very good commentator who has a handle on minor league talent. ****************** If healthy, MacDougal's an upgrade. Monday, July 24, 2006 The White Sox's bullpen was one of its strengths in 2005, but the collapse of last year's setup man, Cliff Politte, and the offseason trade of Luis Vizcaino to Arizona left a void between the starters and closer Bobby Jenks that no newcomer was able to fill. Mike MacDougal has thrown just four innings since coming off the disabled list earlier this month but appears to be healthy, and in a tiny sample this year, has induced eight groundouts against just one flyout. He's one of the few pitchers in the majors who can miss bats and can get groundballs, so if he's healthy, he'll be a significant upgrade in the ChiSox's bullpen. This marks the first trade of the Dayton Moore Era in Kansas City, and it's a sensible one, as Moore moved one of his most tradable and least necessary assets (a closer) and added two arms to his farm system, addressing the organization's primary weakness. Like MacDougal, lefty Tyler Lumsden has had injury problems, missing all of 2005 after surgery to remove bone chips from his throwing elbow. Lumsden has an average fastball with good sink, a plus breaking ball and good control, but he hasn't had the strikeout rate you'd like to see in a starting pitching prospect; at worst, he should be an asset out of the bullpen due to his ability to get right-handers out as well as lefties. The Royals also acquired Dan Cortes, a 6-foot-5, 205-pound, 19-year-old right-hander who was Chicago's seventh-round pick in 2005. He has a fringe-average fastball and flashes a plus breaking ball at times but is still raw and has a fair amount of projection. He's an ideal second guy in a trade, especially given the paucity of pitching in the Royals' system. This is by far the best writeup I've seen on the trade. I think he's pretty accurate with the talk of the prospects. As much as I like Lummy, I think he is best suited as a damn good lefty reliever as opposed to a starter (thats because I don't think he has enough secondary stuff). In Cortes case, he's raw with a good arm and thats real nice for the Royals cause they get two guys with some talent. In MacDougal's case, I was talking ot my dad and he was watching the Royals game and was telling me that Mac came in and looked downright unhittable against the Angels in a game. Said he was popping it into the upper 90's with a nice breaking ball (slider). He gets good sink on his fastball and I think it will be a big benefit for him to come to a winning team for the first time in his career. He's going to really want to win and I think that type of attitude is something good to have (since he has never won in his career so a different kind of fire will be there).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) At some point with him, do we just get to the "Let Cooper keep working with him and hope for the best" phase? Can't recall who, but at least one person was saying that Cooper has really been working with Vaz on improving his pitching with runners on base. We've seen what he can do for 5 innings, if he can just hold it together a little more and find a groove, he could really help us. Then again, maybe I'm just hoping Cooper can do something he just can't do. Thats been me and I saw major strides in Javy's game yesterday with runners on. He was using a higher leg kick (which is how he pitches with no one on) and it helps to keep his delivery slower without getting out in front and rolling his breaking balls. I see absolutely no reason to move him from the rotation. I have a lot of faith in this guy turning it around and being a front line pitcher for us for a number of years. Call me insane, call me whatever you want but I've seen progress made and I expect it to continue to be made. Sox fans will be thanking Ozzie and Coop for this later on in the season, just like they should already be thanking Ozz for being patient with BA (Something I have long said they had to do). I have no problem with McCarthy joining the rotation next year when we move Garcia for prospects and financial flexibility.

Even at the major league level, batters had trouble squaring up on him. The problem was he was a little over his head and wasn't getting used enough. Its hard for any guy, especially one thats coming from A ball, to be able to pitch successfully when they are rarely out there. Obviously he had some major mental gaffes (fielding wise) but he's made some serious strides in Charlotte and is a legit major league reliever and I think a lot of teams would like having a lefty like that (even if he is rather unproven).

Steve Phillips was just on ESPN saying he likes the deal for the Sox, but wants to know whether the defense will hold up with Soriano in left and Pods in center. Didn't really add any new info to the deal.

If a team is in rebuilding mode, I watch the games with a different mindset, but when we have a team with this type of talent, I expect the playoffs. At that point anything can happen but one thing I hate to see is a team that underachieves and thats exactly whats happening right now and its frustrating. They have no positive thinking going on and are burying themselves deeper and deeper into a rut with every game. Somewhere along the line they will need some sort of a major momentum changer to help losen this team back up. THey had a swagger most of the year and thats been gone as of late and because of that everyone's pressing and struggling.

New York, Philly DC, Bmore between Aug 16 and 21st or so.

Weird. I have a few friends that are working on getting into the business (ESPN or another sports station) and both have met a few of the guys. I also have a couple friends that were a part of Fullerton's national championship team. All of them have met Reynolds (my two friends at a thing in Bristol along with Stuart Scott, and than the two baseball guys I know at different charity and Fullerton events as well as a big college world series type deal) and all 4 have raved about the type of guy Reynolds is. They say he'll come and talk to any player or anyone and really just offer friendly advice and be as nice as possible. I was told the same about Stuart Scott, in this case he's been helping out my two friends a lot in there attempt at working into a hard industry to get in. Very odd so he must have said the wrong thing to someone.

QUOTE(CySox @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) Make room for McCarthy in the rotation, and call back up Tracey. He might get called up when McDougal hits the DL again Tracey has one more option, right? He's only been up once so he's only lost all his options. An option being used allows a guy to be sent up and down as many times as you want over the course of one season (so even though he's been sent down twice now, only one option was used).

I don't get that report, we say no to dealing Broadway and it mentions we say no about McCarthy but also says we could afford to deal Brandon. Why would we deal Brandon before Broadway? On a sidenote, if we aren't willing to deal Broadway, it tells me that this org really thinks highly of the kid. More so than Tyler Lumsden. Of course I take this as a grain of salt and its probably just someone intentionally slipping info in negotiation ploys.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 07:08 AM) It's not just with the pitchers. This team is geting angry. Oz better straighten out his approach or he's going to be in a world of trouble. I saw enough when I saw Dye and Thome have to go over when Ozzie was going off on Garland. There facdes looked like..."Oh, not again". I fear they are getting sick and tired of it, but I really hope I'm wrong and obviously things are magnified when you are losing. This team needs to find a way to get some positive momentum, whether its on the field or it comes via the trade, I don't know, but they better find a way. QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 08:33 AM) I don't see any evidence of Ozzie "losing the team" at this point. However, screaming at his pitchers in front of everybody in the dugout is counter-productive and will cost him if he keeps it up. Imo and I've said it in the past as I've slammed him heavily for this...but thats exactly how you lose a team.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:51 PM) I actually think that would hurt him more than help. I mean, a guy is dominating for 5 innings and then gets taken out? I'm sure he'll know it's because they don't have any faith in him past 5 innings. That could actually end up hurting what already has to be his waning confidence. But if he gets the win thats just as good. And it means he goes a few starts without having that happen. Like I said, If I were managing I wouldn't have done anything different tonight with the exception of walking Mauer once Cotts fell behind.

Jerry Owens is by far the worse prospect of the bunch.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:47 PM) I see a team that's pressing. On offense, they're not executing because they're setting themselves up for failure. Honestly, the extra bunting and that spiff is a joke. They're not playing fundamental baseball because they don't know how. They're a strong, professional team. They're just not catching the breaks. IMO, they need to relax and have some fun and get this funk out of their system. The only 2 guys that look to me like they're aren't pressing are Anderson and Uribe. It's no coincidence that they're both playing very well. Every team goes through these stretches. Since they're not scoring, every bunting/get em over situation is magnified. Every borderline bad pitch is getting crushed. They'll snap out of it. I just hope it's not too late. On the bright side, there have been bright spots within the pitching. They've only put one solid game together during this stretch, but it's a start. One real positive that I saw from Vazquez is that he got beat on this fastball. I'd much rather see a guy get beat when he's trying to challenge the hitter and attack the zone. It's much better than throwing breaking ball after breaking ball because he's scared of the bat. Good post...in general they are really letting this funk get to them, just like they did last year. Last year I said as soon as they clinched they'd be golden, this year they won't have that opportunity so they will have to make or create some other sort of break that gets the pressure off there backs and lets them get back to having fun. I don't know what that will be, but I'm hoping it starts with a win over Santana and continues with a win by Buehrle and a series win over the Twins.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:43 PM) Jas this is not the first time this has happened. This is not a lets tip our hat to the opposing offense moments here. We have a pattern. To me, Javy is the same thing as our 5th starter is to the 2004 team. He is an autoloss. I bet our team was waiting around for him to detonate. I think your going a bit overboard...in 04 we won like 1 game all year from the 5th spot, javy has a winning record. I realize he gets uber run support, but I don't think you can compare the two. QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:44 PM) You definitely get this feeling that the team is sitting around waiting for something bad to happen. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Javy is. I bet after that hit he went, spiff, here it goes again. That is why it may not be bad to take him out if he has 5 strong his next start so he could leave a game with his head held eye and rebuild some confidence (kind of like Ozzie did with Jon, where he started taking him out of games a bit earlier and now recently he's started to let Jon go deeper).

In a few minutes, I'm going to move this into the White Sox loss thread (since thats where discussion of tonight's game belongs). Ya I think we all feel bad and now would be as good of time as any to take some deep breaths and relax a bit. I know last year when we were sucking, right after the team clinched I took the next few days off from watching the Sox and it was really nice. I think I may try doing the same the next couple days or at least watch things from just a passive position where I don't whine and complain (it will be hard to do though).

QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:28 PM) I was watching the Tigers game, and I had turned it over to the Sox game and it was 2-0 Sox. Then about 5 minutes later I turned it, it was 6-2 Twins. Did Javier implode again? Or was he out already? Most would say Javier imploded, I would say the Twins just hit good pitches and than in the 6th you could make a case for him imploding with Cotts almost getting out of the jam but giving up a 3 run Hr to Mauer (who he threw a 3-1 FB to, and it was questionable why we threw to Mauer at that point instead of walking him).

QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:30 PM) Leyland. Gardenhire in a close second. Agreed. If the Twins and Tigers make it, it will be a very close race with Leyland pulling out. If the Twins and Sox make it than Gardy goes. I don't think the Twins and Sox would make it, rather it will be the Tigers and one of the Sox, Twins and Yanks/BoSox

Anytime we play the game I think this team has a chance to win. Of course I usually deem things a loss anytime we go up agaisnt Johan, but you never know.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:34 PM) There was nobody on when he gave up the bomb to Morneau. And I don't think it was that bad of a pitch. It wasn't a good pitch like Cuddyer's was, but nothing horrible. For example if he was rolling stuff all over the place (like he was in the Tigers game) I'd say something. I didn't see him doing that tonight. Sometimes you get beat and thats what happened to Javy tonight, imo. Against the Tigers he beat himself.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) Then why have Cotts ready at the beginning of the 6th inning? After the game I was going to commend Ozzie for having him ready although Vazquez was absolutely cruising. I must say, I am at the point where I just can't stand Vazquez and his mental fragility. Its really going to be hard watching him the rest of this season and next. I think you got to be careful, but nowhere in that inning did I really see Javy making bad pitches (which is what he was doing with runners on in hte prior games). This time around he just got beat, all you can do is tip your cap. But like I said a few times, i see where you all are coming from and you could very well be right.