Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Let me ask...IF garland is worth $9mill per, what's Buehrle worth? $15mill? $17mill? Technically speaking, on the open market I think Buehrle would get a little more than Garland. I'd reckon it would be somewhere around 13 mill per year (now he could take a discount with certain teams but if he were to go to the highest bidder, that would be the case). Garland isn't worth much less than Buehrle, imo. Not in these market conditions. On a sidenote, Gene, I like your ideas about Buehrle.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 02:05 PM) IF my aunt Dorothy had balls, she'd be my uncle! Seriously, if JG got hurt, he'd have to live on $16 million for the rest of his life...not too shabby. It may not be shabby, but he's going to get about 50 million more than that long term and he'd be an idiot to sign a 2yr 16 mill deal.

QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 01:51 PM) If I was JG, I'd ask for a 2 year $16 million contract...when that ends he's only 28, THEN...MONSTER DOLLARS!!! Umm...he's gonna get 7 mill or so (maybe even 8) in arbitration. Why the hell would he do that. The guy could on the open market get himself a 5 to 6 yr deal worth a minimum of 11 mill per year and I'd think it could get as high as 13-13.5 mill a year.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:29 PM) I agree but the reason they let Bengie Molina go is probably because of Jeff Mathis. But there was zero reason not to offer him arb. Worse he does is decline it, but you end up getting draft picks. If he does accept it gives you 1 yr which is the perfect stop gap to mathis. Mathis is not ready this year.

Haha. I just got my 1st one. Still have to watch it. My best friend was shocked I hadn't bought it. Can't wait to finally watch it.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:24 PM) Once again, I agree. I tell you, if it wasn;t for the off-field issues, Sean Taylor might very well be the best safety the league has seen since Ronnie Lott. He is great in coverage and good against the run. Polamalu is a lesser version of Mike Brown IMO. About as good against the run but like you said, not great in coverage. Lynch was always the top of the Safety crop in the NFC until he left for the AFC and the Bronco's. Lassiter was great in his days in Arizona and I agree, Rodney Harrison is probably the best in the game now. IMO, Harrison, Reed, Taylor, Brown, and Lynch are top 5 in thw NFL. But hey, a Pro-Bowler is a Pro-Bowler. In 2-3 years, Brown/Harris will be the best safety tandem in the NFL. I can't say that. Harris has played well as a rookie, but he has a long ways to go and who knows how Brown will be 2-3 years from now. He's long talked about hanging it up at a younger age so he doesn't have to deal with all the long term effects of playing football. I do think Mike Brown will one day be a coach for the Bears (in some way shape or form).

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:24 PM) That would make a lot of sense. They are probably going to lose Bengie Molina and they traded away their backup stud catcher in Josh Paul. They could go with a catching tandem of Jose Molina and Olivo and let Jeff Mathis spend another season at AAA, although one could argue that he is ready now. The Angels will suck next year. But Olivo >>> Molina. Jose Molina is a focking BUM.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:18 PM) I like where you're going with this. As posted on page one, I'm sticking to my guns in asking for Billingsley, either Broxton or Edwin Jackson and another mid-level prospect. I think it's very fair to look at what Freddy Garcia netted at the trade deadline two years ago and think Garland can get the same. You want: a) an MLB-ready ballplayer--in our case, it would be Broxton answering a big need in the bullpen v. Seattle's need for Miguel Olivo b ) an upper-tier prospect--in our case, it would be Billingsley v. Seattle's Jeremy Reed c) another prospect--in our case, Edwin Jackson, or the like v. Mike Morse I really hope that's the direction Kenny wants to go when trading Garland. Anything less, and he's undervalued his own player once again. Edwin Jackson can't be the main part of any deal with the Dodgers. He is not the highly touted prospect he once was. He still has the arm, but arm troubles and struggles at the major league level have ruined that hype. Consider him Juan Cruz when the Cubs finally gave up on him (ie, still had the great arm but had struggled too much at the major league level to be considered the type of prospect he once was). However, Jackson is still just 21 (plenty of time left). If you get Billingsley, be prepared for maybe at best a Billingsley/Jackson package (which gives you two killer arms, one has issues though). I think thats the most the Dodgers would give up, but I really can't see Bill going unless they get a 72 Hr window and sign him long term. If thats the case, I go back to getting at minimum Bill and Broxton together. Unless of course the Sox prefer to get themselves a bat (ie Guzman or LaRoche) plus a pitcher like Broxton. Still most fair deal: Elbert, Broxton, Jackson

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:17 PM) I agree. But you cant deny that the NFC safety position is slim pickings. Brown will always be rememberd for the 2 greatest plays of the 2001 season in back-to-back weeks against SF and Claveland. I will NEVER forget that. But for this season, I will definitely remember his shot on Marcus Pollard. WOW! There aren't many great safeties as is, but Browns definately amongst the best in the biz (AFC or NFC). Hell the best in the AFC isn't even playing this year (I happen to think Rodney Harrison is as good as it gets). At the same time Polamalu is a better version of Roy Williams. Pol plays the run tremendous but does have lapses in coverage. At the same time he makes some big plays in coverage and overall is a good Safety. I don't follow the Skins enough to tell you about Sean Taylor. I just know he's got a crazy skill set and has a ton of off field issues. I have no idea how healthy he was this year or if he even came close to living up to his hype. Than there is Ed Reed whose solid but on a lousy Bmore team. Lynch I'm guessing is gonna be in the probowl. He wasn't what he once was, but he's still solid. Your not going to name many safeties in this league that are better than a healthy Mike Brown, imo.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:16 PM) It was Liberty University...founded by Jerry Falwell. Liberty U. I guess his knee didn't have God on his side on Sunday. I despise the pack, but I hope Gado can come back and be solid (as long as he sucks against the Bears and we keep winning).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:09 PM) I think that is a damn good deal and I wouldnt blink an eye. It would stock our system again, and allow us to deal or develop. I like it. Plus if you look at it from the Dodgers perspective, they keep Billingsley/Guzman/Laroche so I think they'd be happy. I must admit, if I could get Billingsley over Elbert in that deal I would (but I think the only way you do that is if the Dodgers are desperate and you have another suitor offering up a good amount).

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) Your deal for Broxton, Jackson and Ebert was about right IMO. It's a damn good deal. Just most people were expecting and talking about a deal like Broxton and Billingsley/ Guzman and others. If the sox want to "strike it rich" they'll have to accept A level prospects, not all guys who can start in AAA or make the sox 25 man roster. Some combination of prospects should be expected OTOH, a lot of people are expecting a Mulder /Hudson deal as well. Those two had more success than Jon had before they were traded. I think if you put the Dodgers on the burner and had some leverage from another team (say the Rangers) you could press Billingsley or Guzman, Broxton and a lower level guy or one of there not so good players (however, this guy could be Jackson simply because the Dodgers brass is frustrated with him). I don't think the odds are great of that deal, but I think there is potential and I do think if you had leverage you could work something along those lines out. However, I think the other deal I suggested: Elbert, Broxton and Jackson would be a very fair deal as well. We would be getting 3 very talented arms, two of which are right at the major league ready cusp while the other is 1-2 yrs away.

Lol, thats what I always call him. This is a big loss, Gado was looking really good for the Pack and he sure looked good against us a couple weeks ago. I feel bad for Gado considering this guy was like a 3rd stringer on his hobunk college team. How the hell he made the NFL I'll never know. But once he got a shot he looked pretty good. Hard to root against guys like that.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:06 PM) I was throwing out names because I am not sure ofthe roster. Perhaps Brown made it because of the lack of talent at safety in the NFC. Anyone think Chris Harris would have been a Pro-Bowler if he started since day 1 and never got hurt? Brown made it because he's a very good all around safety, which also happens to be one of the key positions of the cover 2 defense that we run. Sure part of the reason he got in is because he plays on the leagues top defensive unit, but at the same time he's a large part of the reason our defense rocks. Brown plays the run about as good as any safety in the league and is pretty good at coverage. He also has the knack for the big play and rarely is outsmarted. He always takes good angles and aside from one game, he wraps his guys up when he gets them in site. Brown isn't a sexy player, but he's about as good of an all around safety as there is in this league.

I'd look for the Angels to sign him to a 1 yr deal.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) a buddy of mines take who took the words out of my mouth: Money doesn't matter to teams like the Yanks/BoSox. Plus considering what Furcal got, Damon is the superior player (although Furcal has upside and is younger) and kills two birds with one stone for the Yanks (CF and the top of the order). The Red Sox will be reeling cause its not like there rotation is great (its improved from last year though, but that wouldn't take much). Red Sox definately have some voids to fill. Especially since I don't happen to think Youkalis will be this great 3rd baseman (of course I love Marte, but I doubt he'll be up there at the start of the year).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 20, 2005 -> 10:50 PM) I was really going to be interested in what Soxtalks reaction was going to be to this. I also think its a great signing. NY needs a leadoff hitter, and a CF on top of that. Add that to taking away one of the cover boys for Boston. Its the Yanks, who gives a s*** if they overpay. Agreed. This is an exceptional move. Especially since Damon is a really good character individual as well. He's a hell of a hitter and it feels a big time need for the Yanks (leadoff hitter and CF).

QUOTE(Randar68 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) Honel, Malone, Munoz (if he doesn't win the LOOGY job), Tracey (if he doesn't win a righty relief role), Reynoso (see Munoz), Baj (see Tracey)... Ulacia, Josh Fields, is Bullard still Sox property? Ya, Bull is actually a legit sleeper for the final bullpen spot (if they Sox opt to carry two lefties). He's been rehabbing and will be good to go at the start of the season.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) The sox are seemingly intent on trading a proven, durable #3/ #4 type SP with one year left on his contract yet most everyone wants LA's top SP prospect [potentially a #1, #2 SP] or top positional prospect, along with a bunch of other prospects like a few #3 type SP or stud relievers? Am I the only one who thinks the board asking price is a bit too unrealistic?! The Dodgers won't do it and few other teams will trade their top minor league pitching prospects, as those arms will be close to helping in the bigs very soon. Seeing how the sox need young arms [and the reports are that's what's being asked for Garland, it's imortant to see what the sox can realistically expect in return If the sox could get 2 solid #3 type SP prospects and a prospect position player, that would be a good deal IMO. BTW- the sox got Vazquez for Young and cash relief in terms of Duque's and Viz's contracts [close to $7 mill] and the cash thrown in. As far as hoping for a Kazmir-Zambrano deal, most GM's aren't smoking crack. No, they aren't unrealistic. This isn't a #3 or #4 pitcher, this is a guy that teams would be paying #1/#2 money next year and that on many teams last season he would have been a #1 or #2 and I think you can make a case that he was our best pither over the full season last year (Buehrle had that large stretch where he was struggling and Contreras had that amazing 2nd half, but was mediocre to poor in the 1st half). We give up a 26 year old whose entering his prime, we get some damn good talent in return. No exceptions.

I got no idea whose going to pitch in Charlotte. The Sox are going to have to do some serious restocking. If they deal Garland, that should help restock the system, but this years draft will be key as well. Not that it will help for a few years, but it will be important to replenish the system.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) Why has no one mentioned Russell Martin yet? I made mention of him a while back. But I don't see the Sox dealing for a catching prospect. Martin is a good prospect, but catching prospects are so hard to read. Not to many seem to develop for whatever reason so I'm always leery on that. Plus with AJ signed for another 3 years, that should give us time to find our own in-house between Hernandez and Lucy (who I think is a major sleeper). I'd just rather nab pitching prospects and if I wanted a hitter from them I rate Laroche and Guzman as better options. Of course we have Fields at there spots, although Guzman may end up in LF or at 1st. In terms of Fields I hope to hell he breaks through this year. He has the skills and did some promising things in the 2nd half of the season at Bham, but he still has a lot to work on. Finding a long term solution at 3rd (since it seems the Sox may not have Crede for too much longer) is not a bad option and the Dodgers can offer us that as well as some talented pitchers. That whole list (aside from Miller and Jackson) of pitchers is better than any of our starting prospects. I think Jackson has better pure stuff than any of our pitching prospects as well and Miller (if he gets things back together) could find himself in that category as well (he looked good late last season after coming back from his injury). The Dodgers are as loaded of an organization as there is. By far #1 in my mind.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:07 AM) Thank God you're not the GM. You're trading away a young starter who put up a mid 3 ERA in the AL and you want a player who reeks of utility player. Add to the fact that the Dodger system is f***ing loaded with pitching prospects and a very good Joel Guzman...and yet you still want Delwyn Young. Smart! If we want hitting prospects it Laroche or Guzman, no ifs and or butts. If we want pitching we have plenty of options: Billingsley/Elbert/Broxton/Miller/Jackson. All of those guys when healthy have darn good stuff. Miller and Jackson both have had some injury issues though (which should be noted). Broxton is the one thats major league ready and you could make a case that Jackson is (if he puts his head on straight).

Non-tendered so we can still negotiate with them. They just wouldn't be able to take the pay cuts the Sox wanted if they were to actually go to arbitration with them (IIRC). I think there is a shot we still see one of them back.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 10:35 AM) Worth it on the "Vanilla Gorilla" nickname alone... He's probably gonna be another Dalembert, most likely more, in terms of contract. We desperately need inside presence. He's obviously much stronger than anything we have at C right now and he actually blocks shots...along with the altering. Dalembert is so much better than him. Dalem is a guy I'd want, too bad we can't have him. He's better than Chandler too as far as I'm concerned. At least the Tyson Chandler we've seen this year. The one that is attempting to play center.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 10:52 AM) Dawkins? Williams? Roy Williams f***ing sucks. Most overhyped and over-rated player in the league. The guy can't cover s***. He can hit and boy can he hit, but he's not a great safety. Just ask Dbaho (well if he'll ignore his homerisms). He gets reamed in coverage all the time. Small example was the pathetic job he did in the Washington game earlier in the year where he got burned on consecutive bombs for TD's on plays that were his responsibility.