Chisoxfn

Just to add. For those that say the Sox are going to lose a lot of power. Going to make some assumptions here (I consider them conservative) Crede - 20 Uribe - 20 Konerko - 30 Thomas - 20 Dye - 25 Rowand - 20 Thats 135 homers right there. Thats between 6 players. Then you also have Scotty P who will hit 10, the catchers who combine for maybe 10 and Gload/Everett who get 10 or so. So thats 165 homers. That isn't fantastic, but lets also remember that I think thats a conservative estimate. On the high end you get more from Thomas, Dye, Uribe, Crede, and Konerko. So my guess is they hit 180 plus homers which isn't too shabby. They also will have a lot more steals with Harris, Pod, Rowand out there. The average and OBP is definately a questionmark but we'll have to see how that goes. Get me Pyrz and Perez and I'll be so so happy or Perez and Polanco or whomever. Hell get me Perez and I'll just hope for another signing after that How many of us b****ed that we wanted a team built around pitching, and defense and guys that are better fundemenatally. Well in one offseason Kenny has almost done that (still needs a good starter and I'd like to see a catcher) and the team will have a very good pitching staff, very good defense, still above average power, better speed, and probably a lesser average.

I'm assuming he talked to JR and said, I got a guy in mind for SP and I want to make this deal that will give us some good players that will help the club and give the flexibility to make this deal. But if for whatever reason I go over budget by 2-3 mill will it be alright? Thats how I'm assuming the talks went. If they go for Clement then thats probably the offseason. If they go for Perez, I think the Sox make one more signing following non-tenders. At the same time Kenny could wait for non-tenders entirely and see what starters are cut lose as well. I'm starting to get excited because with Perez or another good pickup the Sox will have one of the best pitching staffs in all of baseball. It will be combined with a strong bullpen AND rotation. The defense will be very good (good OF defense) and the infield with Crede, Uribe, Harris, and Konerko (with a potential pickup like Polanco or Ginter) will be very good defensively. We know Burke calls a good game and Davis is solid defensively. The Sox are going to be a much more dynamic team, but at the same time they should have power between Crede, Uribe, Konerko, Thomas, Dye, and Rowand. All of a sudden you have a very very good fundemental ball club. One that still has the homer power but also some speed and so so much pitching (you can never have too much pitching).

Don't look at his 3 year splits, look at his 2 year splits because he's been relatively similar the past two seasons. This past season he was outstanding versus left handed pitching and will be going to a better lineup and a better hitting park. I do agree though, their is no guarantee he's a part of this deal. Odds aren't too good, but if he is this deal looks more then solid to me, especially when factoring in the money. Cause that money will give the Sox enough to fill their remaining two holes (SP and C).

I doubt he gets 5 mill, I think 4 mill max. Although the Cards could get desperate if they lose Renteria and overbid.

He puts up a .340 OBP with his speed and I'll be pleased. Thats what i'm hoping for because he's going to turn so many plays into doubles and help create so many runs. I'm assuming he's a good bunter?

Pos will play left, no reason not to. He has the weaker arm and Rowand and Dye both have plus arms. Plus Rowand is a fantastic defensive outfielder. My one fear is that Posednik turns into Tony Womack who always had so much freaking speed but never really amounted into that great of a leadoff hitter (although he did a solid job last season).

This is a wait and see deal. I need to see who the PTBNL is and what the Sox do with the money. The Sox should be able to add two more pieces now this offseason plus whomever the PTBNL is. If somehow they are getting Ginter as the PTBNL (which is a possibility), regardless I do expect another quality player coming the Sox way...and then they go Perez and Pyrz then I'd call it a hell of a deal. This is assuming that Ginter can play 2nd base and play with Willie. You could have Ginter split time amongst 3rd and 2nd depending on how those guys are doing. Could you imagine an offseason: Sox lose Lee, Maggs Gain: Dye, Hermy, SPod, Vizcaino, Ginter, O. Perez, and Pyrz They would have the holes filled at the top of the order, in the infield, behind the plate, in the pen and in the rotation. Kenny would of filled every hole with a 75 mill payroll. You'd still have question-marks and guys would still have to produce, but I'd be very very very pleased with that offseason. I doubt it goes that perfect the rest of the way, but the next step is getting a good starting pitcher and I'll be really excited if they pick up Perez.

Odalis Perez and a non-tender guy. Or Perez and Polanco. I think they have 10 mill available and that should be enough for both Perez and Placido or another non-tender guy. They need a good SP and a solid middle infielder. Of course I wouldn't complain about Perez and Pyrz either.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb...s_mlb&fext=.jsp

I only listen to it a bit and ya, your joke went way over my head

No, haven't been to the site in a while. But the guy does good stuff come draft time. I often disagree with a lot of his assessments, but overall he does a fantastic job.

Cancel that name. He's out for 2005. The other guy would be an awesome pickup though. Jones was rated very highly in the Brewers organization though.

I think Weeks is pretty much untouchable. But if the Sox got him I'd absolutely LOVE this deal. Also the one guy I suggested Jones is out for the entire season according to Brewerfan.net Its a very respectable site, I've talked to the guy that ran it once or twice a long time ago.

Well Kenny had some quotes and mentioned both Luis and Scott specifically so that tells me those two are here. The question is who the PTBNL is. Ginter could still be that guy since he hasn't played in the AL, meaning he could be a PTBNL. The Sox may want to figure some things out really quickly. Maybe if they can't sign a FA pitcher, then they don't get Ginter, but instead take a good pitching prospect from the Brewcrew. Now I think the Sox will target a picture relatively quickly and try to sign him. They are the one team (along with the Cubs) who can snag Clement away from Anaheim, imo. I don't know if monetarily its the move to make. Odalis Perez is a guy out there who could actually be signed at market value. 3 yr 17-18 million and you'll get him, imo. You could even potentially land him at near 5 mill a year and give the rest in incentives. I think you'll see Perez the next acquisition and then the Sox will use the remaining money on a non-tender guy or a middle infielder.

Just throwing out some names in the Brewers organization: Ben Hendrickson (RHP) - AA Mike Jones (RHP) - AA Both of those guys are high upside pitchers. Hendrickson has some of the best stuff in their system and is just beginning to put it together. Jones was around 20 and already in AA. Both put up good numbers their as well. I think that type of caliber prospect could be coming. Just like I think Ginter could be that guy, but the Sox would obviously have to first make a roster move. If it is an official PTBNL, thats another story cause an actual PTBNL can't be a major leaguer or on the 40 man roster (IIRC).

I think 3yr 18 million gets a deal done.

Guys, just finished reading this book of a thread. Man, I really need to study more often. At first I was a little pissed reading through the thread. Then I saw Vizcaino and Pos coming our way and when I read that Ginter was coming too I was really excited. However I think thats debatable. And right now I think they are saying a PTBNL because the Sox have to make a roster move and pull someone from their 40 first. Then I think things will open back up. I'm assuming Paulino Reynoso is pulled from the 40. This deal is something I like for two reasons, but as of now, it comes down heavily to who the Sox target and who the PTBNL is. The Brewers happen to have an oustanding farm system, so if they are getting a very good prospect, I'm quite pleased with the deal. If they get Ginter I'm very excited about the deal as well. I think Pos will probably hit .260 or so and have a poor OBP compared to what you'd like out of a leadoff hitter, but at the same time you can pencil in 50 stolen bases and he's going to help create some runs or at least score them. It kills to lose Lee, as I'd rather of dealt Konerko, but the Sox are gonna save about 7 million and now should have roughly 10 million to toss around if they have a budget around 72-74 million. What I do know is that the Sox all of a sudden have a very good bullpen. You don't know how happy this makes me cause I've long said the Sox need to add two good relievers and they have done EXACTLY that. I'm hoping Odalis Perez inks a deal with the Sox.

Sox and Brewers working on a deal surrounding Lee and Posednik. Ginter's name has also been mentioned on the Brewers, but no other names have came up yet.

I should add, these type of moves rarely have an effect on the major league club. This is a move done to potentially improve Charlotte. But who knows, anything could happen.

He had an elbow surgery during his tenure at A&M. Prior to his injury he had dynamite stuff. Actually missed roughly two seasons with the Aggs both from the same arm injury (it was like a surgery that kept him out of most of two seasons). I'm assuming Tommy John but not positive on that. Would of been a higher pick had he had the opportunity to show that he was healthy.

When my finals are over I'll write something better on Warp. But he is a guy that may have some upside. Missed all of 2003 with arm trouble and 2004 was his first year back. Don't know what his injury was in 03, but his 02 numbers were very good in Aball. 2-4, 2.48 ERA in 15 starts. 70 hits in 76.1 innings with 61 strikeouts. Most of his outings last year came in the SAL, which is the same league Kanny plays in. Was an 8th round pick in 2002 out of Texas A&M.

Welcome aboard We'll have to see. Sounds like their is truth to the two teams meeting and Ozzie has probably told Kenny to get him a leadoff guy. Only problem is I have my doubts as to how good Pos is. Great basestealer and solid defensive player, especially since he'd be in left. But what else would the Sox get. Ginters alright, nothing special. They need to be getting either a fantastic prospect as well or another good player. Plus of course use the money somewhere else. For example would you deal Lee for Odalis Perez, Pos, Ginter, and a top prospect? Cause that could possibly what this deal indicates.

I agree, but if they get a very good prospect or something else quite valuable out of Mil then it could make things interesting, especially when you see what the Sox do with the payroll flexibility. Ie who would they sign.

One thing Gammons said interested me and that was Rios and Lilly for Hudson. Personally I am surprised that Beane wants Lilly back considering he unloaded him in the first place (don't remember if he was a FA or dealt, but I think he was dealt). Anyway remember Sox are talking with the Jays and it makes sense that they could get Rios in a deal involving Konerko. Doubt they could get Lillly too, but Batista and instead of Lilly give them Garland or Batista and maybe something else (from the Sox) and they could be interested. I'm in the school library right now. I swear if they pull off a deal and then announce another move (say Huddy or RJ or whoever) I think I'll be getting dragged out of the library for screaming so loud

And my studying for my final thats just a few hours away.