Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Dizzy Sox @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 07:59 PM) Viciedo after the ASB: .364/.397/.636 He's going to be good. Real good. He's got special bat speed.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 02:08 AM) Contreras is still useful. No need to rush Hudson. We have a decent core of young players. The 2010 White Sox should be a really good team if Kenny is average this offseason. Full year with Beckham, maybe Getz improves, Richard with more experience and confidence, Quentin healthy. A lot of reasons to think the team gets better next year. Rushing Hudson shouldn't be in the cards unless he dominates in spring training. That's extremely exciting. Hudson probably won't be up until late in the year or an injury, but that rotation is very encouraging. He was a better prospect, but that's quite the exaggeration. Honel never produced outside of A-ball. McCarthy put up Minor League player of the year numbers while cruising through a ton of stops and had a ton of success early in his major league career. Injuries have really been McCarthy's only problem (albeit its a big problem).

QUOTE (Felix @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 06:19 PM) Here's a look at their numbers over the past two seasons: Danks: 308.1 IP (52 GS), 3.53 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 7.4 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 2.57 K/BB, 0.8 HR/9, 130 ERA+ Floyd: 343.1 IP (55 GS), 3.93 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 6.8 K/9, 3.1 BB/9, 2.23 K/BB, 1.1 HR/9, 117 ERA+ So basically, Danks gives up slightly less walks while slightly striking out more batters and giving up less home runs, and ultimately less runs. Gavin has thrown more innings per start, but I think some of that has to do with Ozzie's handling of Danks given Gavin's extra few years of age. Or the fact that Gavin just has the better ability right now to go deeper into games. Both have been really good but Floyd had an atrocious start in there. Over his past 15 he's one of the 4 best pitchers in baseball IIRC (ERA wise). Or at least I swore I read that just after his Yankee start.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) Buehrle/Peavy (when he's healthy, co #1's), Floyd, Danks (one of the best "4th" starters in baseball), CONTRERAS (OOPS) and now Torres/Carrasco/Garcia/Colon/TBA. Yankees=Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Chamberlain, Petitte, Mitre (Wang/Kennedy/Hughes) Red Sox=Beckett, Lester, Wakefield, Buchholz, Penny, (Dice K/Smoltz) Angels=Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, E. Santana, Palmer (Escobar/Loux/Moseley)...would have given them the advantage before this season. Rays=Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price, Niemann, Sonnanstine Definitely, we have the best starting rotation outside of the AL East, there's no arguing that much. 2nd, do we make a move for Doug Davis or Paul Byrd to get possibly only 3 starts out of them (if Peavy's really coming back in August) or just gut it out with what we have...? If you are talking top 4, I'd have to say the White Sox. But right now Peavy is hurt so they can't truly be in that discussion and we know I feel this way because I absolutely love Gavin Floyd too. I put the Sox at the top because I don't buy Joba as a starter (can't go deep into games yet) and Pettite isn't as good as he used to be. Boston has a great 1-2 but Wakefield is on the DL, Bucholtz is unproven and Penny/DiceK/Smoltz haven't looked good. Really love the ANgels, they right now are my 1. No true ace but Lackey/Saunders/Weaver/Santana is pretty damn good when healthy. Drays have a shot to be the best but Kazmir hasn't been that great, Price hasn't yet made the strides everyone expects him to make one day. I love Matt Garza though.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) I LOVE speed. That 7th inning was so fun to watch. Sometimes, you have to force the other team's hand. It is a part of baseball and it was beautiful to watch. Had we not scored that inning I'd have been pissed cause Kotsay and Quentin had crushed it with two on and no one out and we had gotten nothing to show of it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 08:36 PM) Hell yes to the Q as well. Write today down as the day the Sox acquired an MVP and a CY Young Award winner. It is also the day I declare that I think the Sox are going to be World Champions this year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 1, 2009 -> 12:54 AM) I can't name the source but I can tell you that Hudson was told that he was traded. But maybe my source is wrong cause everything I'm reading tonight indicate it was the exact same trade. I swore I saw someone else confirm a while back that Broadway was a part of the trade too.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 10:01 PM) ??? That doesn't appear to be the consensus of this board right now. With a couple of exceptions I think most posters acknowledge that we gave up some decent prospects, but we used said prospects to get an ace who is better than any of those players will be. Nobody's been bashing the weakness of the farm system this year because it isn't weak, and the only top prospect we gave up is Poreda. We still have Danks, Viciedo, Hudson, and Flowers. I don't see what you're getting at. Poreda I was fine with. I like Dex but given that we have a few starters I think out of all the guys we had, I personally rank Danks/Vicideo/Flowers/Mitchell all above what we gave up (excluding Richard, because young starters with his arm don't grow on trees). There I said it, Clayton Richard is a better prospect than Aaron Poreda

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) I think Hudson has a chance of being ready. KW may be thinking that with the economy in the crapper, free agents are going to be cheaper this offseason. If he's right, he gets to buy low. Especially when you surround Huddy with Buehrle/Peavy/Floyd/Danks. I'm thrilled. The Sox didn't have any upper echelon pitching prospects. RIchard has a great fastball and I like his potential but he doesn't have secondary stuff. Poreda was a high rated prospect that I think makes it as a set-up guy but doesn't have good secondary stuff. Neither Richard or Poreda are front of the rotation starters. Dex is a guy that is probably still a year away with a very live arm who has a shot at being a #2/#3 but that is just a shot and he's still a long ways away. Russell is a guy we obviously weren't super high on anymore, otherwise we'd have seen him up before we made a move for a Pena. Bottom line I'm thrilled with this deal because the Sox now have a sick rotation and can really get younger and better in the field with Danks/Mitchell/Viciedo/Flowers and keep Alexei/Beckham/Getz/Quentin. That really is a beautiful young nucleus to go with a rotation that has two guys before there primes, one just entering it and one in his prime. Plus Hudson is a f***ing stud, better prospect than Carter right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 07:26 PM) We may struggle to fill those slots. KW says 3 starts. 1 is tonight and we're currently winning this game 6-5 (thanks God!). We can call up Torres to cover a few of those. He was real good last outing; we'll see on the rest. If we can survive those couple weeks; you don't want to be the team facing Peavy, Buerhle, Danks, Floyd in the postseason. Expect Torres back up. The Sox like him.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 05:55 PM) What I don't like is that Kenny consistently overpays in these trades. We traded Swisher and Vaz and got table scraps. maddening to me. Tyler Flowers and Sergio Rodriguez are far from table scraps. Dayan Vicideo (Swisher's money) is also far from a table scrap. The Sox traded 1 top 50 prospect for a 27 year old ace (widely considered one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball). I'd say that from a personell stand-point you are talking about a potential steal. I think Richard turns into a solid starter for a long-time, RUssell is a 6th inning reliever, Poreda turns into a set-up guy, and Carter is an X-factor but I don't see him as being a front of the rotation starter (and he's still in A ball). So basically if every guy hits his peak I'm still freaking a-ok with this move. This is of course assuming Peavy's arm doesn't fall off.

QUOTE (whitesoxmanager @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 05:20 PM) also if JP isnt going to be a factor until Sept then how many games is he possibly going pitch the rest of the season....max 6? that is the same number of games from now until then that we are going to be starting who in Richards place? to me it is a wash. + peavy isnt big game pitcher. he depends on movement. imo he isnt overpowering anymore. didnt pitch well in bad weather vs. zambrano earlier in year. do you think it will be nice weather in october? i hope i am proven wrong. i will be the first to point out to you fools when he gets lit up by the AL. i was happy the trade didnt occur before and obviously i am a little sour now. Peavy is a strikeout-machine. I don't know how you can say he's not a strikeout pitcher.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 05:11 PM) The other thing is, KW has never been burned trading for aces, even like in David Wells case when it didn't work out. Sirotka never pitched again. Simmons was so bad in Toronto the Sox actually re-signed him and then released him and Kevin Bierne was nothing. So it was nothing for nothing. Its kind of funny, Gary Glover ended up being the best piece of that deal (at least I thought he was a part of that deal) but maybe he was a part of a different trade.

QUOTE (ChiSox420* @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 04:38 PM) What is the source on that? Just to confirm what I thought since KW did say today it was the exact same deal. I can't name the source but I can tell you that Hudson was told that he was traded.

QUOTE (ChiSox420* @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) Just had an idea about this... Could it have been Hudson was in the last deal but now to maintain his value Kenny portrays him as an "untouchable" and having offered him up previously could diminish that value. Hudson was a part of the previous deal. It sounded like the old deal was Hudson, Broadway, Richard, and Poreda. This is a similar package except that Broadway was replaced with Russell and Hudson was replaced with Carter.

Wow, this is the quietest couple hours leading up to the deadline that I can ever remember.

Technically no one knows what comp level he will be.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Is Ricciardi on drugs? Well if you ask for 6, that doesn't mean you'll get 6. Plus I personally don't think the Dodgers farm system is what it once was, but they do still have some talent. I wouldn't trade the Sox top 6 for Halladay. Danks, Vicideo, Mitchell (even though he can't be dealt), Hudson, Flowers, and Poreda or Carter No thank you.

The Jays have apparently asked the Dodgers for there top 6 prospects.

That is a big time pick-up for the Tigers. There rotation, aside from the top two starters was faltering and I really felt that the Sox or Twins were going to pass them. Washburn, as much as I think he's a mediocre starter, has been very good this year and will be really nice to put into the Tiger rotation. Plus, his fly ball stuff should translate well in Comerica (just as it did in Safeco).

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:06 PM) Seems like it was a precautionary if anything. I love the fact opposing hitters are batting .193 against him. Is he the best pitching prospect we've had since Kris Honel (before his arm fell off)? Also, nice to see Viciedo tearing the cover off of the ball. Brandon McCarthy was 10 times the pitching prospect Honel was.

QUOTE (tommy @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:37 PM) I'm kind of asking out of left field but I was at work all day without any news source, and I got a twitter msg from Stone that said: "I wonder if kenny williams will hold a press conference to deny the floyd, richard, ramirez, and flowers for halliday." Was there an early rumor floating around? That would be one of the worst trades in the history of baseball.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:21 PM) If the Sox traded for Halladay without giving up Floyd or Danks, their rotation would be at the top, if not at the top, of the AL. I don't want the Sox to sell or buy. Yes, with Halladay they are a much better team, but at what cost? Kenny has moved the team into a transitional mode, with several younger players (Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Quentin, Denks, Floyd) part of a new core, and others hopefully on the way. As exciting as it would be to acquire Halladay, I don't think the Sox are guaranteed the division, given their upcoming schedule, poor defense and inconsistent offense. I'd be much more in favor of such a move if I thought the Sox were better than average right now. While they give up RIchard/Poreda/Ramirez, I counter and say the Sox still have Viciedo for 3B, Beckham for SS, Danks and Mitchell for the OF, a young Quentin still in the OF, and Hudson/Carter as young pitchers. Plus with those 4, I could make a legit case of Hudson opening the season in your rotation as the Sox should be able to deal with the growing pains from there 5th starter. And of course Tyler Flowers for catcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:18 PM) Counterpoint: this mini skid is coming, once again from the bats. The pitching hasn't been the problem aside from the closer. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't make the bats wake up unless it's Micah Owings. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't get Jenks back in a groove. You talk about the bats, but the Sox lost three seperate games because of there pen (one of them was the Drays game) but two Tiger games were lost because of the pen. One of the Twins games was arguably lost on poor defense (Buehrle's game). So while the offense wasn't great I still say the Sox should have won a fewm ore games and had they done so we'd actually be talking about the 1st place Sox. My what a fine line there is between winning and losing.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:44 PM) Where would we be in the standings? Yes it's an annoying thread, but we dont have enough of that type lately. For all we know he'd be back down in the minors after having a terrible start. The time in the minors was beneficial to Beckham. I'm glad the SOx did things the way they did. Hell, even than people were upset thinking the Sox had pushed him too fast.