GreenSox

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 8, 2008 -> 01:11 PM) I think every single point you make there is wrong. I meant the Sox played Fields in LF last year. And he's not a good fielder at 3B. But thank you for your input. We'll see what sort of a contract a mediocre hitting 3B gets.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 8, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) Because we are going to need him at 3B once Crede's gone ... and he'll be gone before 2009. But he can't play the position. Crede's contract isn't going to be that big, Boras or not. Also, the Sox played Crede in LF last year, so they must have had other ideas for 3b

QUOTE(Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 01:15 AM) Fields has a monster bat and will only improve his defense at third by playing regularly in the Majors. What about 1B? Why haven't the Sox worked him there? He should be able to handle first. Trade Konerko, but not for 1 year rentals of Figgins, please.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) The more likely is something along the lines of Konerko for Figgins and Santana. That's Konerko in return for a flawed pitcher and for ONE YEAR of a high obp, speedy bad fielding player. If that's all he's worth, don't trade him. That's a useless trade for us. Evem worse would be to slide Swisher to 1B. W'e'd trade our 2 top pitching prospects and 3 of our top 5 for a mediocre power first baseman. It makes a highly dubious trade ridiculously bad.

$4.5 million for a shortstop says that Uribe has some value. If he doesn't, Williams shouldn't have given him $4.5 million (even if he hadn't traded for a SS the next week). While 2 SS says we may be desperate, the Orioles are in a mirror position with zero SS. They don't have a CF either.

QUOTE(R.J. @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) Ok, I was a bit harsh, but I think you're being generous to the guy. I'll modify my statement: 2 of Gavin Floyd's (10) starts were "top of the rotation quality" - or what you would expect to see from your #1 or #2 starter. Sept. 5 vs, DET: 6 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 6K, 2BB Sept. 29 @ DET: 7 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 2K, 0BB, W So give him credit for those. A dozen of those a year and you can start talking him up as a "front of the rotation" type pitcher. But that isn't what we saw. He had a few more quality starts, but he pitched more than 6 innings once on the season, he recorded one win in 10 starts, he gave up 17 HRs in 70 innings, had a WHIP of 1.48, and had an ERA of 7.00 until the month of September. If you want to make the argument that he showed some talent and has deserved a chance to crack the starting rotation in 2008, then OK, I'm with you. But what I'm trying to point out is for our general manager to try and sell this guy as a "top of the rotation guy" is absolutely insulting to White Sox fans and it makes me sick. To imply that we might not be aggressively looking for valuable arms to put in our rotation because we have Gavin Floyd on our side is a bad excuse. I never said he was top of rotation. But he had a lot of quality appearances and his numbers are skewed because he was hit really hard in 3 games. He made 6 straight starts to end the season. with a cumulative ERA of 3.40. 5 of those starts would be deemed "effective" (6 innings, 3 or fewer runs; certainly, some on the border). And none were disasters. He also has very good "stuff". His problem is that he gives up way too many home runs, problematic with the Cell as your home field. One of the reasons that the Sox are in this mess, in my opinion, is complete lack of patience with young players and lack of development of young talent. Bad month? Sit on the bench and play the average veteran the rest of the year. People want to unload players and get prospects in here .....why? So that they are marginalized if they don't produce in a month?

QUOTE(R.J. @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 03:33 AM) We have nothing from Gavin Floyd to show us that he's even a capable 5th starter. Outside of two encouraging starts last year, he looked downright ugly. Actually 7 of his last 10 appearances were excellent. Too bad he didn't pitch more - but Ozzie was still wheeling his crappy veteran middle relievers out there in late September (just like he was having ERstad hitting in the 5 hole in late September). Gavin got off to a terrible start, getting slaughtered early - he started the 2nd game of that infamoujs double header against the Tiwns and, like everyone else, was shelled. I don't know if he's a pitcher or not. this is a good year to find out. As for the celings of these guys, I have no idea. But I thought that the point of trading for them is that they had high ceilings (Danks above McCarthy, e.g.)

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 08:07 AM) Let's think about this for a moment. Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no. If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore? Plan? What plan. When he pays Uribe $4.5 million and the next week trades his best trading chit for another SS, that's a pretty good clue that Williams has no plan. He's merely reacting.

Aardsma or Masset - fine. Not MacDougal. I wouldn't quite give up on him yet. Uribe just needs to go. Let Richar play and bat 9. This platooning stuff - with the great Uribe. We'll never develop a young player that way. Almost as ridiculous as platooning with the elite Erstad.

Burke's a utility infielder. Giving up talent for a player like that is why the Sox don't have squat in the farm system. Give them a low ceiling A ball pitcher - you know, the kind WE get when we trade our utlity players - check that, when we trade our starting 2nd baseman. Thronton's the #3 guy in our bullpen - no way he's traded for a utility infielder. No way this guy beats out Richar.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) If you put KW's comments together, Jerry Owens seems like a lock to be starting in LF next season. With that in mind, Xavier Nady would be a great acquisition to fill in against LHP. The Pirates are desperate to get rid of him, and you could probably get him for someone like Adam Russell and Heath Phillips. Nady could really help against LHP, and then just let OC lead off against. You don't give talent like Russell or Phillips for a platooner.

QUOTE(yoyozuna @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 10:23 AM) With thw WMs starting on Monday and KW being known for his wheelings and dealings I was curious what people thought about the number of moves that will be done. I am going with 3. (two trades and one free agent signing). I don't know all the deals but here are a few thoughts: 1)We will have a Coco in the OF. 2)We will somehow lose 3 BP arms and gain 1. 3)Both Crede and Fields will still be on the team. 4)One "Surprise move" which will result in the loss of either (Konerko,Dye, or Vasquez) These are just complete gut feelings, feel free to rip my theory apart or add your own thoughts. (PS HELLO to my transplanted SOX family in LEXINGTON, KY!!! HI! BEN! MATTHEW! and JOEY!! oh yeah u too DAN!) 1)HOpe not; Crisp's not particularly more than average and Boston wants legitimate talent for him. That spells bad trade to me. 2)If we lose 3 of Aardsma, MacDougal and that ilk, that sounds like a positive situation. If we lose young strong armed pitchers like Egbert or Russell to acquire yet another veteran reliever, that is a disaster. 3)Could be fine for the right deal, if it's Konerko or Dye.

Dotel is an arsonist.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 12:19 PM) What's weird is, it seemed like the club had one of the best benches in baseball in 2006 - Mack, Ozuna, Cintron, Gload and Alomar. But with Ozuna's injury, Gload gone, Mack being traded, Alomar replaced by Hall and Cintron inexplicably falling apart... they suddenly had one of the worst benches in baseball in 2007 with the likes of Gonzalez, Hall, Terrero, Molina, etc. There's not a legitimate major league hitter on the bench in either 2006 and, indeed, it was worse in 2007. Mack was the best of the bunch.

I'd rather have Uribe. Eckstein's D is not good....Ozzie has affirmatively debased defense for the last 2 seasons, but hopefully not to this extent.

Ozzie manages this team to the 2nd to worst record in baseball, and is incapable of developing young talent. Yea, he gets an A.

Exactly zero patience with young players; so he throws him into left, which is a longshot for him. In 4 years of managing this club, Ozzie still hasn't turned a single young player into a regular. Not a single hitter has signficantly improved under this coaching staff.

More Ozzie-ball.

He swings at everything, just like Uribe and his OBP shows it. He hits a few more HRs, but faces NL pitching. He's marginally better than Uribe....but not that much. Certainly nothing to do a dance over and say we've improved. Plus, to get Green we'll have to give something up. When I see these Garland for Green (plus the obligatory A ball pitcher) suggestions I want to laugh: essentially trading Garland for a minor upgrade over Uribe.

Every sportswriter basically says the same thing: let's add more Ozzie-style hitters to the team: swing at everything, low obp, moderate to low power - just like Ozzie likes it. Unfortunately, Ozzie's offensive theories have resulted in the worst offense in the AL, if not baseball. Green ( Uribe with long hair), Rowand (ho hum), Eckstein (worse than Uribe - his D is mediocre)....ugh...Any chance we get some real talent on this club?

I'm glad he's preaching OBP. Has he told Ozzie about that? And can anyone on this staff teach/coach it? Ozzie Guillen? Greg Walker? If the adage "if you can't do, teach" applies maybe so. But those 2 swung at everything. Plus, what's the point in preaching OBP to someone like Uribe, who would likely lose his power? Or Erstad, a grizzled veteran who's been swinging at everything for 10+ years?

There are worse things than a slappy speedster at leadoff (also better things at leadoff, I agree). Like tonight, Ozzie's feature presentation is Erstad in the 5 hole....that's offense, Ozzie-style.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) Ozzie isn't doing a great job managing, but this team isn't that good either. It's a matched set. Some of the clods we have on this team are laughable. We won't compete next year, not without some serious upgrades in SEVERAL positions. One of the reasons the personnel is so bad is because Ozzie wants the Erstad/Mack/Cintron/ and assorted other crap hitters on this team; and because he has no patience with young hitters. We're damn lucky that the Sox won the WS before Ozzie had a chance to screw up the personnel. Ozzie gets the most out of his personnel...the personnel isn't very good and he has major influence in who is on this roster.

Looks like he's slowing down to me. Still, to play some left and DH against lefties, he'd be a great piece, if at the right price. But I doubt that's what he wants (although I don't think anyone's going to give him some huge lt deal).

QUOTE(3E8 @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 02:46 AM) I don't know how you feel about these guys, but there are other young players who have gotten a chance recently to prove themselves (Anderson, Masset, Owens) more than Floyd has and haven't been great, and I do not know that had they worked out it would bring the same upside to our team. Floyd at this point hasn't had more than two consecutive starts still. So my thinking is, we're clearly out of contention, put Gavin in the rotation the rest of the year which will be about 6 or 7 starts. That way we'll know for certain if he can work with Coop and make strides to actually harness his talent with some sort of consistency, or if he is just mentally/physically incapable of being a successful pitcher at the major league level. I agree - he has talent, so use him the rest of the year. Let's see what he has. Plenty of young players, including pitchers, need a fair chance. We're out of it, so we can give him the chance.