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QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2011 -> 07:18 PM) Five years would be under incompetent direction. Big market team like the Sox should be two years. Yes but given the awful contracts and the poor state of the farm system, even under competent direction, I think that this mess will take five years to sort out.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 29, 2011 -> 07:18 PM) Who the hell on this team would anybody want? Ramirez and Santos. But you obviously don't want to trade them. You may have to.

QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ May 29, 2011 -> 06:57 PM) You need an outsider to come in here with a fresh perspective. They haven't had anyone close to that since Himes - who despite everything has been the best evaluator of real talent the Sox ever had. The one-hit wonders of 2005 do not qualify - unless we're satisfied in winning a world series once a century waiting around for mostly average players to have career years. Yea, but uncle Jerry didn't like the fact that Himes didn't want to trade away any prospects to compete with the A's down the stretch in 1990 so he was shown the door. Does it surpise you that jerry likes kenny so much?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 29, 2011 -> 06:34 PM) Well I can't say that with Hahn, as I have no clue if he's capable or not. But I love the way Friedman runs that organization. You may as well find out. This organization is at least 5 years away from being competetive again.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 26, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) Tying up $17 million a year on an injury prone player (especially when he was currently injured) was not a smart move. For him to earn that money he would have to be a Cy Young candidate each year, and that risk is just too high. The players we gave up were decent, probably could have gotten a different starter for that haul, but it was the opportunity cost of tying up that payroll in an injured player that has hurt the Sox. Pena just sucks, don't care too much for Allen even though it would be nice to have another option for LF/RF/1B, but he wasn't a big loss. It's just that Pena himself sucks. Rios is not a legit CF, he has been awful for us 66% of his time here, and I mean AWFUL. His defense has been good, but it pretty much ends there, and for $12 million a year, he better give more than that. Would it not have made more sense to tie up this wasted money in player development? I have never seen this organization, supposedly one with limited financial resourses piss away sqaunder so much money and get so little back in return. Their player development is so awful, they have to overpay enormously just to get back replacement level talent. What's interesting, is that before the 2009 season began, Sox management explained their lack of off season moves on the fact that the economy was awful and that revenue streams would be drying up. Then, inexplicably, they go out during the season and make the peavy and Rios moves. So what happened, from an economical standpoint to change their minds?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 25, 2011 -> 11:09 PM) As I regularly say to fathom, I try my best to pretend the summer of 2009 never happened. Wow. Peavy, Pena, Rios. Give me death. And really, it's not as though there weren't warning signs regarding Peavy and Rios. These two moves alone should have gotten Williams canned.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) A lot of Twins fans have the idea that he was the KEY leader (along with Santana) who lit the fuse, so to speak, for that team. That Mauer/Morneau simply are more or less like Thome/Konerko and not "in your face" clubhouse personalities. I'd like to think we'd have at least one more AL Central title, but I'm not so sure about it. His signing, for that money and with a loss of at least 2-3 steps of footspeed defensively, wasn't the best for the Angels, either. Better than Rios, or Vernon Wells, of course, but not a clear plus, all things considered. And then we would have ended up giving the Twins the draft picks, so maybe not the wisest move in the world. Talent wise, it's not that we would have gotten the best of Torii Hunter, given his diminishing skills. I was thnking that perhaps if we got Hunter, it would have precluded the 'comedy of errors' that ensued after he rebuffed the Sox offer; ie, trading Gio Gonzalez and other prospects for Swisher, trading Swisher away and getting nothing back in return, and claiming a very bad contract in Alex Rios.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) And the obvious problem with dumping Rios (and it's moot due to its impossibility now) is that it once again shows the complete disaster which has been CF for the White Sox since the Aaron Rowand years. While never a huge Rowand fan, at least he was an average major leaguer or above for his time with us, especially considering his contract and age. We've gone through Brian Anderson, Mackowiak, Jerry Owens, Erstad, Swisher, Pods, Griffey, Wise and probably forgetting at least 2-3 more...not to mention trading Anthony Webster, Chris B. Young and Jeremy Reed. If nothing else, this development failure led to 2 other related fiascos..."reaching" for Alex Rios based on talent/potential alone AND having to trade for Juan Pierre at this stage in his career. I can't even remember the last time we really had a GOOD lead-off hitter over a long period of time. Maybe Lance Johnson or Tim Raines in his first couple of years with us, although he wasn't nearly the base-stealing threat he'd been at that point. Or Ray Durham. And now Mitchell has a LONG LONG path to get to the point where he's even Carl Crawford Lite. Regarding CF, I wonder how things would have worked out had Torri Hunter signed that contract with us.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 25, 2011 -> 12:10 AM) Shack, you gotta cool it with that. Do you really believe Milk, fathom, caulfield, myself and so on have nothing better to do with our time? If we REALLY hated the White Sox and wanted them to lose just so we could b**** we'd be pretty pathetic. Pessimistic? No doubt. But we all love the team. Even when they suck. Which is quite often (by my standards) since 2005. Not only that, but I find that many of that pessimistic fans are the ones that actually hang around and watch the crappy team late in the year, while the 'seashells and baloons' fans move onto to other things.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 4, 2011 -> 09:39 PM) He has been here for a decade and what's continually the weakest division in the AL, we have two playoff appearances. Even with our WS, that was five years ago -- the results just haven't been there. It's time for him to go. Not only that...Kenny has had a larger payroll to work with. I am of the opinion, that some GMs work better with a more limited payroll

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Apr 16, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) You can't drop the bad and keep the good. A DFA'd McCarthy no way he sticks after last year Danks and Floyd are not here. The rotation would be Buerhle Gonzalez Hudson Richard ??????? Not sure we are all too excited about that. You cannot squander the caliber of talent like Gonzalez, Richard and Hudson and expect to 'buy' your way out of it. Let's face it, in many of our fan's eyes, our GM is still playing with 'house money' as a reslt of the WS win. I also cringe when I hear the slobbering by fans and media types every time Kenny has some over-priced veteran in his un sight. Take a look at the trend in basball, now. It's all about youth and player development. Even the big market temas are realizing this. Unfortuanely, Kenny still runs things like it's 15 years ago. The current team is built to be entertaining. Unfortunately, it's just not built to win.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 23, 2010 -> 05:30 PM) I'll say it again and again, when was the last time the Sox actually signed a top-tier free agent? They don't get involved in a bidding wars in free agency. I refuse to believe we will be a top contender for any of the big boys except Konerko since he is one of own. The Sox MO is try to find free agent bargains, re-sign their own guys and trade for proven talent. They just don't do the big-time free agency thing, which in some respects is good because then you don't become the Cubs and get stuck with horrendous contracts. See Peavy, Jake;Rios, Alex

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 10, 2010 -> 07:45 PM) There are rumors out there that the Sox have a very nice insurance policy taken out for Peavy. And yes, the Padres were very happy to unload him with all of the injury/other concerns about him. But say he does come back in the spring and is god-awful. Then you have a lousy pitcher that you are paying $16 million to. From what I read, the insurance policy only kicks in after he misses a certain-number of days to start the season. This is why I would just as well see him take ot very slow and shoot for a mid season return.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 10, 2010 -> 04:46 PM) Wow, I actually didn't know that. And that does lend credence to the idea that his mechanics were problematic in the first place, in the chicken and egg discussion. This information in and of itself, begs the question why the trade was made to begin with, without any kind of salary releif. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 8, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) Man I don't feel good at all about the Peavy situation. I'm in the mindset that anything we get from him would be a bonus. I don't mean to start another Edwin Jackson v. Dan Hudson flame fest, but the Peavy injury is another reason I feel good about having another experienced, hard throwing starter (Jackson) in a White Sox uniform next year. I understand what you're saying, Chet, but the dominoes started to fall with the acquisition of Peavy to begin with....when he went down, we had to counter his absence with another bad deal to get a replacement in Jackson. I didn't feel good about the 'Peavy situation' when the trade was announced a year and a half ago.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Oct 26, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) No it isn't. Well, I don't think so. The future looks bleaker (is that a word?) for our crosstown rivals on the north side. In a second I would take the Cub roster and farm system over ours right now.

QUOTE (rockren @ Oct 21, 2010 -> 03:56 AM) I also don't buy the Rangers having a ton of money...the only reason Nolan Ryan and his partners won that bidding is because MLB wanted nothing to do with Cuban. The Yanks won't be outbid by that outfit...not in a million years. The Rangers just inked a 20 year $3 billion TV deal with Fox Sports Southwest. You were saying something about not having enough money?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2010 -> 10:02 PM) It all matters. 1 championship - only, what, 3 other AL teams have that? 2 playoff appearances, or 3 if you count 2000 - how many there? Not sure, probably less than half. Wins? Probably still top 5. Years in contention late in the season? All but one that I recall, maybe two. Probably only a few teams there. Any way you look at it, the idea that this organization hasn't been successful under KW is hilarious to me. Do I want more? Of course I do! But let's have some perspective here. LOL, yea, a 79 win season is the same as an 88 win season. True. You cannot take away the championship from 2005. But when you get down to it, didn't he win that title with a core of players established by the previous GM? Granted, to complete the team Kenny made some wonderful moves, but there is some irony to the nature of those trades that made the 2005 team a world champion...whereas most of the meatheads love Kenny's 'Bold and Daring' trades, the basis of most of his successful moves then were smaller low risk high reward moves like picking up Jermaine Dye on the cheap, or sigining Bobby Jenks off of the scrap pile. I wish that he would control his ego and follow that formula for success, as it pains me to watch him trade away promising oyung arms for expensive veterans.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 9, 2010 -> 12:46 AM) If you want that argument, that's fine. But also understand, it backs up my argument and KW's way of thinking even more. They realize they're not great at evaluating amateur talent, so they go ahead, and trade them when they're at their peak for guys who will be useful. Oh Boy. I understand what you are saying, but really. Is this the path to the next championship?

Haven't the Sox done this before, throwing the name of a big name free agent out there for the media to jump all over? Inevitably, the Sox offer is rebuffed but management can say that "they went hard after that guy". This is more of a PR stunt than anything else.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 7, 2010 -> 05:21 AM) You really, really don't like Reinsdorf. Beyond that, I don't think you can even make an argument that the Twins, Rangers, Rays, Reds, or Braves have been very aggressive on the FA market. In fact, unless you are adding one final piece to the puzzle, building a team through free agency is something that is not advocated, because that's one way to really hurt your franchise - signing a player to a huge deal, which handicaps you from making other moves and cripples you when the player goes down with an injury. The Mets made the playoffs like, what, once? twice? after their flurry of free agent signings (and trading a bunch of nobodies for Johan Santana, and then signing him to a monstrous deal) and now they are in a world of hurt because they have like $120 million tied up between like 9 players and they aren't anywhere close to being a competitive team. Drafting and developing talent is the best way to build your franchise up to a contender, and the White Sox haven't done that well. You can't blame Reinsdorf for that, considering Williams and company are the ones who trade them all away. Regarding Reinsdorf....His biggest fault is that he is too loyal to his GM, who has sold him down the river with a high payroll, mediocre talent and barren farm system. I have always felt that fiscal responsibility had to be a hallmark of a White Sox GM working under the Chairman, but clearly, winning a world championship gets you a free pass for a very long time. Your comment regarding drafting and development is right on...with the exception of the Yankees, most of the teams at the top this year are younger sqauds comprised of home grown players. Unless you have the ability of spending over your mistakes, adding through free agency only works when you have that great core of players. As of now, we do not.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 24, 2010 -> 10:20 PM) I think people lose perspective rather quickly. It's like people wanting to vote back in the Republicans because the country hasn't rebounded from the ditch they drove us into over the 8 years of George Bush. INSANE! Ozzie and Kenny brought the Sox the only World Series winning team in my lifetime. My father lived into his 80s, but he never saw the White Sox win the World Series, and he only saw them play in it once. That buys them a huge amount of rope in my eyes. And it's not as if the Sox have failed to be competitive in the other years that KW and Ozzie were in charge. Only one year have we really been completely out of it. So, my short answer would be that I'd rather let these guys work it out and try to fix the team before I'd jettison either one of them. All of their moves do not work. But many of them have. Now, if Ozzie wants to jump ship to the Marlins, then I would say, BYE. I think Kenny's response is perfect. You were hired because you bleed for the Chicago White Sox. If Ozzie ever loses that passion, he's no longer valuable to the team. But if Ozzie realizes he was just saying that out of a momentary funk, then I'd have no problem keeping him around. One of my biggest fears as a Sox fan after 2005 was that there would be a complete lack of accountability on the part of Sox management and indifference on some fan's part because we did something that year that no one ever thopught we would do. Since 2005, we have seen a GM make several 'who cares if it doesn't work out, I won us a world championship' trades, and a manager who make coutless careless and questionable in game moves, and when his not in-game managing, can't stop alienating fans and running off his mouth. Sad to say, these fears have been realized.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 06:23 PM) Honestly, i contend that if the fan base doesn't like what Ozzie is doing, they should stop watching the f***ing White Sox. You should apply for a job in the marketing department.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 03:12 AM) Morel has really superb use of his top hand on the bat, in how he rotates his wrist over upon hitting the ball. Very good fundamentals and that leads me to believe he has a chance to be a very good line drive type hitter, as evidenced by that double. I haven't seen much of him, but I get excited when a kid the Sox drafted comes up to the show. That is cool. Say...who do you think he will be traded for?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 09:24 PM) And wich day did the schedule say, "I know Jake Peavy won't be back until September, but I will trade an effective pitcher for him now because we will be in the race when Jake comes back and he will anchor our rotation in the playoffs/WS?" You forgot the part that reads...And I will offer Kevin Towers the same package of players that I offered two months earlier in the season when Jake WASN'T on the disabled list.