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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) Hindsight is 20/20. Everyone loved getting Flowers for Javy, the Teahen TRADE was met with "ok", extension another matter. Initial Swisher trade I wasn't on this board for, so I can't say, but it looked good at the time. As for the bolded, name me 20-25 GM's better. I can name a lot worse. Jim Hendry - Self explanatory. Ed Wade - Think the Sox have fallen far since '05? Mark Shapiro - I don't care about this year, especially since they just payed a kings ransom for Ubaldo. Plus, he blew the CC and Lee trades. Dayton Moore - I'm waiting for the fabled Royals dynasty Jack Zduriencik - Makes our lineup look like the Red Sox lineup. Ned Colletti - Santana for Blake, Manny extension, Pierre contract, Jones contract, etc. John Mozeliak - Lucked into Berkman being productive, terrible IF after Pujols, got fleeced for Rasmus. Jed Hoyer - He was the Red Sox puppet and that was it. Mike Rizzo - If not for lucking into Strasburg - Harper - Rendon, Nats fans would kill themselves. Andy MacPhail - The O's just aren't good. Won't be good. Billy Beane - "Moneyball". I can't believe there is a movie. I would take Mike Rizzo over KW any day. In the limited he has been there, he has done a nice job with the Nats, though it was stupid of him not to have pedaled Dunn last year.Whether he 'screwed' Kenny last year at the trade deadline is anybody's guess, but in my view if he did renig on a deal that would have sent Jackson and another Sox prospect to Washington in return for three months of a slumping Adam Dunn, it probably saved Kenny from making one more of his stupid deadline deals. Rizzo's approach of scouting, drafting, and player development is the way to go in today's game, and until JR understands this, it will be a long time before this franchise contends on a consistent basis.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) So let me get this straight.... - terribly overpriced roster - sub .500 team in a terrible division - awful divisional record - nonexistent depth in the minors - several untradeable albatross contracts - GM and manager that don't get along - manager's family members disrupting the club house via social media - consistent blowouts in media between ex players and management - fans no longer coming out Tell me again why there have been no changes in the front office?!??! 2005.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 03:14 AM) Rosenthal had something the other day where some White Sox guys said that the bumping KW "upstairs" move, wouldn't work for either of Hahn or KW. If you are going to change GMs, keeping KW around in a position of some authority is a mistake. Let him go scout. True, but you give Williams a place to 'hold over' until he finds another gig. And as long as there are stupid owners (See the New York Mets), there will be somebody out there will be dumb enough to hire Williams as a GM.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:29 PM) It is his fault. It's amazing how different the past two years might have been had Peavy just accepted the trade in May. No ankle injury = no compensation for it in 09. Meaning no mechanical screw ups in 2010. Meaning less stress on his arm, meaning possibly no detached lat. Who knows how much better the Sox might have been with a completely healthy and good Jake Peavy in 09 and 10? Even prior to the injury Peavy had suffered a number of injuries, some of which I will admit were freakish in nature. Recall though that many serious pitching arm injuries start out being leg injuries (See Dizzy Dean). Given all this, wouldn't you as a GM excercise more caution with someone like this Peavy given the large contract in place? Kenny needs to stop looking at the back of the baseball card when evaluating deals and consider what the player may provide to the team going forward.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) This coming from the guy who warned us that Peavy's lat was going to detach and that all of Dunn's hitting prowess was contained in his appendix. Great post, dude. The warning signs for Peavy's injury-prone nature were evident well before the trade was made. For God's sake, he was on the DL the time the trade was made. As for now, Jake may still be in one piece, but barely. A more important question to ask is has he been an effective pitcher at a salary of $15 million? I would say no.

QUOTE (ParkerBear7 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 05:44 AM) Warning: Extremely long post! ......Kenny Williams: Sure, I do not always agree with KW roster moves (feel he has bit of a gambling problem that only worsened after having much luck in 2005) and it is not coincidental that the Sox are ALL IN! Anyone looking at his trade history understand why this is a fitting marketing slogan. But know this; Kenny Williams is a very competitive GM that wants to win it all every year but that is what I want in a GM. I too wish KW would exercise some restraints before trading away some of the young guys but other than lets say Chris Young and Daniel Hudson which trades have really come back to haunt the Sox? I can't think of many.. ...... I admire Kenny's enthusiam and drive to win. He always seems to search out guys who have his football player's mentality. Therein lies what I think is a huge problem...The thing that Kenny or the next Sox GM must understand is that this is baseball, not football. Sometimes you have to be patient and even admit that certain years just may not be your year. Regarding 2005, the irony of Williams' success is with that team is that the only player that KW acquired as a result of an all-in type deal was Freddy Garcia. Of course, it didn't hurt that as Freddy was a relative of Ozzies's the Sox had a strong inidcation that they also could resign him. Many of the other key players from that squad were either obtained through low-cost acquisitions such as AJ, Tadahito, Carl Everett, Bobby Jenks, Juan Uribe, Scotty Pods, or, gasp, developed from within (Crede, Buehrle, Rowand). Kenny worked very hard in the off season after 2004 to stretch what limited resources he had to work with. Kenny was uncharacteristically patient in that off season and his efforts were richly rewarded. I used to think that having a large budget to work with was a good thing, but when I see certain GMs (Williams, Hendry, Manya) squander those resources, I no longer think that is the case.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 06:16 PM) This is really a great post It sure is. And the sad part is, that with all of the horrible financial committements the Sox have, the only way out of this horrid mess is to: 1. Hope that that some of the current dead weight "floats to the top"; 2. Find nuggets off the scrap pile ala Phil Humber, and 3. Patiently develop our own talent Presently, I am not optimistic about any of the three happening.

Pitchers: Brian Bruney -C- Mark Buehrle - A- Jesse Crain - B+ Gavin Floyd - C- Philip Humber - A Edwin Jackson - D Will Ohman - C- Jake Peavy - D Chris Sale - B- Hector Santiago - Inc Sergio Santos - B Matt Thornton - C- Position Players: Ramon Castro - C+ A.J. Pierzynski - B Gordon Beckham - D Paul Konerko - A Brent Morel - C- Alexei Ramirez - B- Mark Teahen - D Omar Vizquel - C Brent Lillibridge - C+ Juan Pierre - D+ Carlos Quentin - B- Alex Rios - F Adam Dunn - F Management: Ozzie - F KW - F Walker - F Cooper - B The grades for KW and Ozzie emphasize how badly change is needed at the top of thsi organization. Yes, I know, it's the players who perform but there were several warning flags over several of the higher profile acquisitions from the last few years. Ozzie's stubborness and lousy in game managing are a problem in the dugout. Both Williams and Guillen have taken advantage of the goodwill from 2005 and have managed their positions recklessly since.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) lol what frustrates me the most is people believing in this team, the writing is on the wall and has been all year: THEY CAN'T BEAT THE TEAMS IN THEIR DIVISION. stop thinking this team is better than they are, they aren't winning the division, the twins are gonna win 2 of 3, or sweep us after this series. don't be surprised when it happens, either There was some idiot on B and B yetserday taking issue with Dan and Terry's assessment that the Sox are mediocre at best and that despite the winning surge since early May, the Sox will bottom out and finish well behind first.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) KC grabs the lead in all 3 games. So much for Peavy's plea for passion. Peavy....? Is that the same guy who couldn't hold the eight and ninth place hitters on a last place team in check with two outs and runners on last night??

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2011 -> 12:53 AM) Francis is 3-9. He's absolutely gotten rocked his last 3 starts. His ERA is near 6. He's topping out at 85-86-87 MPH. If we can't hit him, who exactly CAN we hit? At least Lopez had deception on his side. OK, let's play a game...try to name the inning when Hawk says "You have to tip your cap to Francis"

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 30, 2011 -> 09:56 PM) Every damn season since '05 we see this team come from spring training woefully unprepared. They can't hit the first month of the season. They can't defend the first month of the season. They can't bunt the first month of the season. They can't run the bases right the first month of the season. Is KW in charge of spring training? No, but he is in charge of player personnel and the minor league player development. Apparently, he does a poor job of doing both.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) http://theghostofmoonlightgraham.wordpress...rade-alex-rios/ I think this article almost perfectly summarizes my feelings for Mr. Alex Rios. Enjoy. Interesting that the writer correctly predicted the White Sox as one of his destinations. Laughed about the Cain for Rios idea. It's also laughable that the Kenny Willimas apologists will use the "who would have known" argument when there are documented accounts like this that exposed players like Rios prior to that awful mistake in 2009 when we claimed him off waivers. Same thing with the reports that documented the long list of Peavy injuries prior to the trade for him that same year.

QUOTE (aprec32 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) Just go to any website and look at this year........we have virtually no blow outs. We win a lot of close games and lose a bunch of close games. This is what I believe blew out our pen last year in August. We won a lot of close games in June and July, but in many games, we had to protect a slim lead so we had to go deep in the pen for many of those wins. Our offense last year did not make it easy on the pitching staff especially the bullpen. Same thing is happening this year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 04:31 AM) I disagree. Keeping the garbage keeps the team garbage. Fine, but A, don't expect to get anything in return and B, expect to eat a lot in salary. Kenny is really good at "A" and not so good at "B".

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 04:19 AM) If the Sox continue to play poorly and are 8+ out at the deadline, would you guys be content with dealing PK? I know he probably wouldn't want to go and he's hitting like Babe f***ing Ruth, but what if they could get 2 (maybe 3) of the following 4 from Atlanta: Freeman, Minor, Delgado, Teheran? Or what about to the Yankees for a package around Montero? Also, this would probably mean dealing Danks and Buehrle as well. I'm not in favor of any of this, but I was just curious. Atlanta can really pitch but their hitting isn't all there, and NY could use him and Tex as a platoon at 1B/DH. Uh-oh, you had to go and do this. But to answer your question, I would say that if you can get an unbelievable package in return, by all means yes. In this day and age though, most organizations are very protective of their young talent. These days, managing payroll is just as important as winning. But your thought process is correct. We desperately need to rebuild this organization and we are not going to do it by trading away our garbage (Pierre, Teahen and Rios).

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 06:24 AM) I hate to say it. But if we were going to lose, this is what I would've preferred. A 10-8 slugfest wouldn't have sufficed. This was sweet poetic justice and caps what was an embarrassingly, short-sighted, joke of a trade. Edwin was alright. He was pretty much routine: start slow, look good for a few innings, then ultimately have to leave the game because his command is always horses***. 112 pitches in 6 1/3 IP. That's too much. It's like when Iverson would need 30 shots to get 30 points. How often does Edwin get up on a guy 0-2 then ultimately have to throw 4-6 more pitches just to finish him off? He's so maddening. As for the offense, other than PK, wow. July is right around the corner and we have SIX, yes, SIX blackholes in the everyday lineup. Teams like Boston and Tampa started out really slow, especially offensively. You see how they've recovered. This is just a really bad organization right now. And the future looks as bleak as it has, for me at least, since 1995. Teams like Boston and Tampa have GMs that know what the **** they are doing.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 09:52 AM) This is going to sound REALLY cold. But Jerry is 75. He's not going to be around, whether it be baseball or life in general, much longer (no, I don't want him to die). A new era of White Sox baseball is coming. I'm looking forward to it. In one way, you are right but the problem is this....despite what you think of Reinsdorf, the one huge benefit of his ownership is the fact that the Sox have a very low cost basis ($21 millon), so the team has very little debt to to deal with. It's like owning a house free and clear vs having a huge morgage payment every month. Once the Sox are sold their cost basis jumps to about $526 million (according to Forbes). Thus in all likliehood, the debt service that the new owners will have will be yet another burden on the new ownership, in addition to all of the other baggage that will come with owning this team (so-so stadium, mediocre attendance, crappy organization).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 05:45 AM) Is this rock bottom for KW as Sox GM? Trying to think of a time that more people questioned him Things got dicey for him in 2001-2002 after the Todd Ritchie debacle. He sure outdid himself this time, though.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 04:01 AM) I love how everyone demands excellence & championships, yet disregards 2005 as a lucky fluke and won't give OG/KW any credit. If you wanna argue that 2005 was 6 years ago and they have underacheived since then, that is fine, I completely understand and your arguments are warranted. But they did make all the right moves to win a title back in the day, and don't take that credit away just cause you hate them now. What upsets me is that it's obvious that both Kenny and Ozzie have handled their positions wrecklessly since that achievement, taking full advantage of the 'political capital' that came their way as a result of the title. I will never trade the WC for anything, but my biggest fear after they won in 2005 was that there would be a complete lack of accountability from both. It will be a very long time before this dysfuntional organization competes for anything meaningful.

Caufield's post echos the sentiments of a growing number of Sox fans. It seems as though the WC of 2005 has mystified many fans who have endured years of mediocrity and irrelevence into accepting just about any load of crap Williams and Guillen dish out. From Kenny's meatball all-in trades that have gutted an already thin farm system to Ozzies childish rants, poor in-game managing and stubborness, I have seen enough. I am voting with my feet. Judging by the attendance this year, a lot of other fans are too.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 18, 2011 -> 02:27 AM) No idea how Jackson handles the bat, but it's safe to assume that Alexei will be batting with 2 outs next inning. Betchya Jackson makes more contact than Juan.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) He walked too many guys, but he was not terrible. Nobody was hitting him hard, and he was showing swing and miss stuff. He wasn't terrible as some suggest, but the fact that Peavy could not deliver as promised due to his injury forced Kenny's hand in trading Hudson to get somebody that may provide quality innngs down the stretch. This shows you how one stupid trade ends up in forcing another one equally or even more dumb.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 29, 2011 -> 07:28 PM) Huh? No. You don't trade youth for youth (though Ramirez is not young), but he plays a premium position and is pretty damn good. What do you think a rebuild is? It depends on what kind of package you get in return, but, Ok, so maybe you deal Quentin, Floyd or Crain instaed. The point is, you have to give up somethting to get something.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 29, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) That wouldn't make sense. You trade your older, high-priced vets to get young pieces back so you can start the rebuild. Trading the older vets would just be a salary dump, assuming that you can even move them. If you want to restock your farm system, sadly you have to trade your more valuable assets