Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 06:21 PM) LOL, why not? Was Bill Russell the guy that you wanted with the ball in his hands at the end of a game? I don't think so. Not really. But Russell could dominate a game defensively like no player in history, a lot more than a permiter player can. He's more the exception than anything. Those Celtic teams were built around Russell and his defensive abilities. I don't believe a championship team could be built around Pippen. Could you build a championship team around Rodman? Could a team with Rodman as it's second best player win a title? Nope. That doesn't mean he's not great at what he does. But in the end, he's still a role player. I really don't care what you think my views are. I've got an opinion. You've got an opinion. Just leave it at that. You're acting like i'm saying Pippen was a bum. He was a great player. I would never dispute that. But he had some flaws. And game 7 against the Lakers in 2000 showed exactly why Pippen was best suited in the co pilot role. That's all i'm sayin. Come again? Where are you going with this? I've already said more than once that Pippen is not only the greatest defensive sf ever, he's the greatest defensive perimiter player ever. Period. What's the problem? What's your point with this comment? Did I somehow hint that Jordan would've won titles without Pippen? Jordan was the main guy. There's no disputing that. That doesn't mean he did it by himself.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) 20-17 Bears. Kyle Orton goes 16-25 for 188 yards and 2 Touchdown passes. The defense has some trouble in the beginning of the game as the Steelers decide to attack the Bears with the passing game however the Bears defense adjusts and is able to be a bend but don't break defense this week. The Steelers Passing defense is pretty weak and Ron Turner opens up the playbook for Orton and allows him to be more aggressive. I hope you're right. No, I pray you're right.

Just heard that Mike Brown and Terrance Metcalf will be out tomorrow. I think Garza will be able to fill in nicely for Metcalf. But losing Brown definitely hurts.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 01:50 PM) If you're the greatest defensive SF since the 60s and perhaps the greatest transition player of all time, you're without question a superstar. Next thing I know, you'll be saying that Bill Russell wasn't a superstar because he couldn't take over games on the offensive end. A superstar wouldn't have taken 1 shot in a 4th quarter as his team was choking away a 15 point lead in a game 7 against the Lakers in 2000. A superstar is a guy that can take over a game at any time, a guy that you want with the ball in his hands to get you a big bucket at the end of a game. There's a reason that Scottie is known as the "sidekick". Some take that as an insult. Hell, Kevin Mchale and James Worthy are two of the best "sidekicks" ever. That's the class I would put Pippen in. And as i'm sure you know, Mchale and Worthy are both hall of famers. The Bill Russell comment is not even worth responding to. First of all, don't try and put words into my mouth simply because you disagree with me. They're exactly 3 superstars in the game today. Shaq, Duncan and KG. And it's hard to say who's more valuable between Pip and AI because one guy was the sidekick to the greatest player ever, the other has been the go to guy for all of his career. Pippen obviously kills AI on defense. AI kills Pip on offense. You can't really compare who's more valuable.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 01:48 PM) You place very high standards on "superstar." I didn't know you had to be one of the top ten players of all time. I think being top 50 would suffice, and Pippen is certainly that. This has to be one of the first times I've ever heard someone say PIP isn't a superstar... I said Pippen was a great player. If he's a superstar, what is Jordan? A super, super star? No argument here. Once again, I said he was a great player. But he's simply not in the class of the absolute greats. He's more in the James Worthy, Kevin Mchale class. And that's certainly no insult. That's right. You only remember the 1991-1998 Pippen. You don't remeber the guy who even admitted himself that he didn't take the game as seriously as he should've at first. Pippen obviously became a very dedicated player as he got older. But he wasn't that way as a rookie. Do you want a quote of Pippen admitting himself that he was immature as a rookie? I can probably find one. You're trying to fight a battle that isn't there. Pippen is unquestionably a great player. I've already said that I think he's the best perimiter defender ever. He was perfect for the role that he was in. But I still stand by my opinion that Scottie was never, and could never be a go to guy ala Jordan, Bird, Magic, ect.

As far as the game tonight, the Bulls just aren't very good right now. I think they're fortunate to have the record they have. They look pretty decent one night, only to follow it up with a s***ty performance like tonight. Tyson is making it very hard for me to defend him to all the haters. If Tyson is hurt, he needs to sit down. Because he's not helping the team by being out there. The defense is nowhere near what it was last year. They've got to get back to defending like they're capable.

I disagree with those who claim Pippen would've been more and gotten more recognition away from MJ. First of all, Pippen was not a superstar. He was a great player, no doubt, but never, ever in the same catergory of Michael, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, ect. Scottie wasn't the type of player that was gonna dominate offensively. People say he had his best year in 94 without Jordan. I think he actually had a better year in 1992 with Jordan. The stats are pretty much indentical. Second, Scottie was not a go to guy. He wasn't a guy that could take over the game in the 4th quarter, or a guy that you wanted with the ball in his hands at the end of a game. There's a reason Phil elected to go with Kukoc for the final shot over Pippen in that one playoff game in 94. As far as more recognition, you've got to be kidding me if you think Scottie would've gotten more someplace else then in Chicago playing with Michael. Scottie got plenty of recognition, endorsments, etc. Sure, you got some bozo's who think it was all Michael, but smart people know that it wasn't just the Michael show. Lastly, I think some people forget how immature Scottie was when he first came in. He was somewhat lazy and didn't take the game as seriously as he should've have. I remember reading in one of Phil's books that it was Michael who would always get on Scottie to work harder and take the game more seriously. That Michael's work ethic and determination rubbed off on Scottie, making him a better player. I'm not saying Michael is responsible for what Scottie was able to accomplish, but don't underestimate the impact Michael had on Scottie. Anyway, congrats to Scottie on a wonderful career. He's, imo, the greatest perimiter defender in the history of the game. I'll never forget the d he put on Mark Jackson in the 1998 ECF'S that totally took the Pacers, a damn good team mind you, out of their offense. To this day, there still isn't a sf in the game that can do all the things Pip could do. It might be a while before we seen another one.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) This one is for all the Orton Jockers. Can any of you please tell me when was the last time Kyle led us on a touchdown drive of 50 or more yards? Hell, i'll even take 40 or more yards. Anybody? That's what I thought.

QUOTE(SnB @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 10:13 PM) what a good, solid impressive win for us. augustine/pruitt really contained their big man and we were very pacient on offense. I was outside in a blizzard for 2 hours to get floor seats, i'm cold. The defense was very good. The offense, however, sucked. Dee has got to start shooting better. He's gotta be shooting like 35% so far.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 10:07 PM) See that is the f***ing problem. Your standards are so f***ing low it's absurd. If he threw 10-25 for 100 yards with 0 TD and 0 INT it would be a good game to you. Exactly. I guess it's gonna take getting knocked out of the first round before the Orton jockers admit he sucks. And make no mistake about it, without better play from the qb, we will get knocked out the first round. And it would be an absolute tragedy to waste one of the top 3 or 4 defenses in the last 20 years or so because of s***ty qb.

This one is for all the Orton Jockers. Can any of you please tell me when was the last time Kyle led us on a touchdown drive of 50 or more yards? Hell, i'll even take 40 or more yards.

QUOTE(DukeNukeEm @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) Grossman was taken in the 1st round Stick to the White Sox. No need to be a smart ass. I forgot that the Bears had two first round picks that year.

Rex has shown more in limited action than Orton has showed all season. If Rex isn't better than Orton, then we wasted a second round pick. Grossman > Orton

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 08:45 PM) Most of the year he has looked he has been playing like a b****. He is getting thrown around and really takes anything up hard. His defense has seemed to be non existent for the most part. But this game he looks extremely good... liking the hustle. Hibbert already has like twelve blocks. Well, I haven't seen every game. From what i've seen, he looks improved. Now that my work schedule has changed, i'll be able to watch just about every game. So i'll see if what you're saying is true.

The Illini are pissin down the throats of G-town. Augustine looks like a much different player this year.

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 08:22 PM) What would it take to get him? I'd be willing to give up some pitching for sure. Garland/Uribe/Sweeney or Young and another prospect. Would that be enough? No thanks. There's no starter available out there that could even come close to replacing Jon Garland. Also, I feel Uribe is on the cusp of becoming a star.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 07:07 PM) I really hope the Cubs don't try to get him. They won't have a chance at him unless they're willing to give up Prior or Zambrano. That's what I believe anyway.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 05:31 PM) There's no saying Mackowiak would've been available later in the offseason. He's a desired commodity, a guy who can play multiple positions, great teammate and lefthanded batter. Does anyone really think Williams traded away Marte with zero plan to find his replacement? Really now, come on. Even the White Sox website says they've lined up a lefty or two with a similar profile to Marte from 2002. There's no way KW does this without a plan in place. It doesn't have to be done at a certain time, this is December. This situation is absolutely nothing to get worried over. Preach, brotha. In Kenny, I trust.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 05:25 AM) Looks like Pitt. is taking offers for Mackowiak http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05342/619052.stm Seeing how he can play 3b, 2b, and CF, giving Crede, Iguchi and Anderson some time off, I'd be very surprised if the sox didn't make a strong play for him. There was talk of the sox being interested in him last yr [or maybe just from us armchair GM's around here]. We'll see. Looks like th ePirates are looking for relief help. Seeing how the sox are very strong in that dep't, I could see a match. Pitt is the kind of team that could use guys like Bajenaru, Adkins and Munoz. Nice call, Beck.

I think Timo gets way too much hate around here. But, yes, it does look like he's a goner.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 05:05 PM) Where are the widger fans?!?!? You're pretty much it. lol

I never even thought of this. Frank was not only my favorite Sox player by a WIDE margin, he's my second favorite athlete of all-time behind one Michael Jordan. Now that he's gone? Wow. I love them all pretty equally. I guess with Arow gone i'll say Buehrle or Contreras.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) Ok, Minny would have to be either out of their minds or expecting Nathan's contract to rapidly balloon to make a deal like that. With BJ Ryan getting $55 million, Nathan, who's a significantly better closer, had sure better be able to fetch a lot more than Lowell. Wow. I'm all for the Twins making a stupid ass move like that. It only helps us.

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) I am one of the people who voted for NO. Sure I like Rob Mackowiak as a utility player... but not at the price of Damaso Marte. I agree Damaso fell on rough times this year, but I don't think that trend will continue. Marte is a quality left handed reliever. I cringe at the thought of having Mike Myers on this team. Mike Myers blows. I would have much rather gone into this season with Marte and a guy like Jose Vizcaino or even Jose "manos" Valentin. My feelings could be soothed on this trade depending on who gets added to the pen... but I don't see this move as making our team better. You do realize that Myers absolutely owns lefty's right?

You folks will feel shady for doubting King Kenny.