GreatScott82

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 24, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) I don't think anyone is faulting the "effort". The people in charge care but this is also a results business and that is shown by the won / loss record. To say that hasn't been good for basically the last 10 years would be an understatement. Mark Yep. Enough is enough and its time for a change. And since JR is too old and weak-willed to make the necessary upper management changes, our only hope is that they somehow can change themselves. It would be nice to see them take the rebuilding approach for once. Its time to sell high on assets (Abreu, Sale, Q, Melky, Frazier etc..) Take advantage of the thin FA market and totally revamp this roster. Set the target year for 2019 or 2020 and let the newly acquired talent develop.

Plus it's pretty hard to trust Hahn/KW to do anything right in regards to player acquisitions.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 21, 2016 -> 07:17 PM) We will see. By all accounts there will not be a total rebuild / tear down this off season. JR apparently does not want that and is not willing to wait five years for it to succeed (assuming it does). It will be "go for it" yet again and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. But again, we'll see soon enough. Mark Its a shame you are probably right. JR doesn't know how to plan for long term success and due to his age, we are Forced to see more half assed trades and Mediocre to poor FA signings. #InsanityReignsOnTheSouthside

I keep seeing all this crap about the White Sox moving out of Chicago because of the Cubs recent success. First off, the last time I checked; the Cubs still haven't won the WS. I'm aware that they are the odds on favorites and will likely make it there this year, but until they hoist that trophy-- the Cubs are still the Cubs. With that said, it pisses me off that we have to cheer against them in the post season rather than cheer our Sox. It pisses me off that JR is afraid to make difficult but overdue necessary decisions for the better of the team. With that said, JR still owns the team (until his death), KW and Hahn have unlimited lives and will keep coming back regardless of what happens on the field. We are forced to wait around and see what direction this team goes this winter. With the fanbase openly disappointed and discouraged with them-- I do believe we will see a bunch of trades this winter with an emphasis on building a new and exciting core. Chris Sale will be the first to go. If KW and Hahn do it right, trade off their assets and bring in a plethora of young talent, the White Sox may be ready to go for it as early as 2019. Fans have said, they would be more than supportive of a rebuild and with the assets they have to sell-- it will be an accelerated one for sure. By 2019, will the Cubs still be good? Probably, but the White Sox will be younger and more hungry. Will JR still be around in 2033 when the stadium sweetheart lease ends? No. That means a new owner will take over and the White Sox will Continue to play at the G-spot. I have a feeling the next owner will be from Chicago and I'm hopeful that they will stay here. Here is to hoping the Cubs have minimal success until 2019 (meaning very few or zero WS championships) and to hoping KW and Hahn actually do this accelerated rebuild.

JR apparently doesn't accept his own failures anymore. His front office apparently enjoys spending 8+ years of failure attempting do the same thing over and over again. They refuse to admit the Robin hire was a terrible mistake nor take any responsibility for their own failures. Same coaching staff= same half assed lazy approach, means no long term plan, means more mid market signings and trades. Get ready for another horrible season in 2017.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 05:26 PM) why oh why does this org refuse to clear out dead wood? Because it is ran by weak willed individuals at the top. Also, they just wing it every year and hope to catch lightning in a bottle with their subpar acquisitions. Im convinced they are lazy and are too buddy-buddy with their coaching staff. Oh and the way they handled the Robin departure was embarrassing. Oh and maybe they should stop the fan shaming. We are calling them out because they have failed us over and over again the last 8 seasons. Perhaps for once, they can be more transparent with their long term plans and goals? Gosh, KW and Hahn are damn lucky to work for the White Sox, any other organization woulld have canned them a long time ago. To me , this is proof that JR is getting dementia or just doesn't care anymore.

QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) This leads me to believe that there will be little changes with the roster as well. Yep. Get ready for year 3 of the infamous KW three-year phantom plan of failure. No direction, No accountability, No future. My favorite team sucks and is run by a bunch of clowns. #FireHahn, #FireKenny #SellTheTeamJerry

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) This organization is a joke Yes it is. The lack of accountability is absolutely insane.

In regards to the rebuild. I need to see it to believe it. I have ZERO trust in this organizations front office. I can honestly see them ONCE AGAIN attempting to patch up holes with odd ball free agent signings on the cheap and trades for veterans. Which once again, gives us ZERO long term success hope. Ahh, I remember a few years back-- Rick Hahn loved using the phrase 'sustainable success' What a joke that has turned out to be. Get ready for more patching, White Sox nation!

Hahn and KW are beyond lucky they work for the White Sox. If they were apart of any other organization, they would have been fired a long time ago. With that being said-- can you finally cut your losses and rebuild? Not a half-ass 2013-14 mini 'retool' job. I am talking a good 3-4 year rebuilding plan. Let's face it, Renteria really doesn't bring more fans to the stadium, but he does have a track record of working well with young players. The free agent class is weak, no need to sacrifice your 12th pick or anything. You have plenty of assets, start wheeling and dealing. Lets do this the right away. No more patch jobs, odd ball veteran signings etc...

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I generally tend to defend FO decisions, if only because everyone around here vehemently pretends to have enough information to call everything black and white when the truth is that none of us have any idea what we're talking about. But even I have to join the criticism bandwagon for the last 7-8 months of decision-making. 1. To this day, I feel like they foolishly cut the acquisitions short during the latter half of the offseason. There were a million good short AND long-term reasons to lay out for a final OF bat (and/or Ian Desmond), and they fell short. I don't get the strategy there. 2. The Shields thing was always terrible. I spent way too much time around here digging up and typing out the reasons we shouldn't sign him when he was a free agent, and ALL of them still applied to trading for him. I thought passing on Shields as a free agent was evidence that Hahn took pitching peripherals seriously, but when he made the trade, I now have to wonder what info he's using. Honestly, I'm convinced JR influences most of the moves. He has been on record in the past that he LOVES signing veterans 'with something to prove' Also, he knows these players are cheap and are a low risk type acquisition. Hence, the ridiculous mediocre to poor signings by KW and Hahn over the years. And when he DOES give KW/Hahn the green light to get out of the comfort zone-- KW/Hahn sign the wrong player and they come here to suck or be mediocre. Regardless of who is at fault, their approach is beyond stale and it does NOT work. In order to for KW/Hahn to leave, i'm 100% convinced that JR needs to sell the team or pass away. Get ready for another half measured offseason.

I feel bad for even starting this thread. I should of known the rumors were too good to be true. KW and his puppet--Rick Hahn will continue to drag us along to .500 land in 2017. I miss the days when the White Sox were relevant in this city. Unfortunately, we will likely have to wait until JR sells the team for this to happen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) If you look at this logically, with what WSD is reporting, I don't think KW is leaving. With Robin, after the leak they wanted him back, but the leak no negotiation and the news there would be a press conference the day after the season ended, it would lean toward Robin isn't coming back. And that is what happened. WSD said KW wouldn't be at the press conference. If he really was resigning, wouldn't he be there to answer questions? Love him or hate him, he has been around forever, and walking away with no answers as to why doesn't add up. Do Team Presidents/ GMs attend after season press conferences after being let go? Did Schuler attend the press conference when Jerry fired him and promoted KW? You could have a point but I'm just curious, because it's been so long since changes were made at the top.

There are rumors out there stating Kenny Williams will finally step down from his post on Monday. Can this actually be true?

After the Robin leak, I highly expect him to come back. This organization is so out of touch with their fanbase its pretty sad. They are also apparently out of touch with knowing how to build a good team. I'm embarrassed with everything going on. How on Earth does KW, Hahn and Robin still have a job? I hate to say it, but we will not see another winner/ actual plan until JR sells the team and/or passes on.

I could not believe this report when I saw it this afternoon. If it's true. How the hell do expect me to take JR seriously when he says 'I really want to win now" The lack of consequences within this organization is unbearable to witness as a die hard White Sox fan. I stand by my original hypothesis that this team is run like a country club. A bunch of friends hanging out and no matter if you win or lose, they are making money and having fun together. It's obvious they don't care about winning anymore. If they did, Robin would have been fired after the 2015 season. If JR cared about winning, he would have fired KW after the Ozzie-KW divorce of 2011. If he cared about winning, he would have fired Hahn after putting together another bad MLB roster in 2016. What other organization retains a manager after 4 consecutive losing seasons? Has there ever been a MLB manager over the last 50 years keep his job after failing to make the postseason in his first 5 seasons as manager? We deserve better as White Sox fans. It's pretty sad that ownership and upper management have no clue and can truly care less about the fanbase's desire for necessary change. The White Sox have fallen into the land of irrelevance when their crosstown arch rival has become a very relevant baseball monster of a team. The Robin-Hahn-KW triumvirate of stupidity era has been the worst of my lifetime. I'd gladly take the Bevington days back over this crap.

I've been following from afar. Have not been watching the product daily since the end of July, but will occasionally check in to see if anything interesting is going on. If anything, I've been closely eyeing the Twitterverse to see the latest in managerial rumors, white sox direction etc.. If the KW/Hahn two headed monster of dysfunction would have acquired young talent at the trade deadline, I would likely be watching everyday. Unfortunately, other than Rodon's progress or Anderson's play, there really isn't a whole lot to hang my hat onto. Although I am very doubtful KW/Hahn can turn this disaster around, I am very curious to see what on Earth their plan is this winter?!? Who will the next manager be? Will they stupidly sacrifice their first round draft choice for an aging free agent acquisition? Or do they simply plan on obtaining talent through trades? Is a rebuild really out of the question? If so then why? Their half-measured approach over the last 8 years has really sucked. The farm system is STILL in pretty poor shape and the main roster is not that good.

My hope is for the team get younger and aim toward a 3 year rebuild program. I feel Dave Martinez would do wonders with younger players and get the most out of them. Even though we clearly know they will continue to try and scrap together a roster via the weak free agent market and mediocre trades, I would still like them to sign Martinez to a 4 year deal. That is my hope-- the reality: scrap together another mediocre roster, sign an oddball free agent that will cost the team their first round draft pick and will sign AJ or Konerko to become manager.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Sep 22, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) Please no Konerko. I don't want to end up hating him, like we all hate our current manager. Just be prepared to be disappointed, whoever it is. It's the White Sox way. I was happy with the Manuel hire (at the time). I was happy with the Ozzie hire (at the time) The Ventura hire was the beginning of the end for my trust in KW. KW hired his friend to replace Ozzie. The problem was, his friend had ZERO coaching experience at any level. At least the Ozzie and Manuel hires were justified via coming from World Series championship teams- both being that of the Marlins. If winning is a priority, they NEED to explore all avenues this time around including that of winning organizations. Dave Martinez and Sandy Alomar need to be atop that list. If they hire PK or AJ-- im officially done being a White Sox fan.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 04:03 AM) If the Sox were to acquire Billy Butler, to be their DH, I think that might be the last straw for me. How would Butler do anything to fix this pathetic offense? They need one really good hitter, with a high OBP, legitimate power, and preferably left handed. You insert that guy into the top 2/3 of our current line up and you have suddenly transformed an inept lineup, to a dangerous, effective run scoring offense. Billy Butler is not that guy: Eaton Anderson Melky Abreu New DH (preferably Left Handed) Frazier That line up would be more than adequate, with the right DH. The problem is that no one seems to know who might fill that hole, or how to acquire him. It would be ideal if there were a player in the last year of his contract, playing for a new lucrative deal in 2018. He might be affordable, available and highly motivated. Then we could let him walk, with or without a qualifiying offer, at the end of the year. Signing Butler definitely seems like a white sox move. I have zero faith in this organization at the moment. I mean what is their plan? Are they still on this oddball phantom '3 year plan'? Because 2/3rds of it have been a complete nightmare. What is the point of letting Robin play out the contract? Apparently they have zero faith in Renteria as well? I hate to say it, Mr. Riensdorf-- there is no chance in hell this team wins a championship next season. (Not to get all Vince McMahon on you but, enough is enough!) The free agent pool is not good at all. The farm system is in very poor shape. Yet, they refuse to trade their hottest chips to fill multiple needs. Can someone please tell me how the hell this team is a contender in 2017?

Sounds about right. About 67% of White Sox fans on here think we should sell. 70% of us dang well know they will be buyers this winter. It's too bad there wasn't a 'buy on the cheap' option. The Sox LOVE to go bargain shopping for has beens.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 20, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Way too many questionable Draft picks, bad trades, and bad deals have cost the White Sox a lot of money and set back the franchise in terms of becoming more competitive. Assuming that heads will roll, who might Reinsdorf interview to replace Kenny Williams and Hahn? According to the boss himself, KW and Hahn are in lockstep and that the 'plan' will be clear this offseason. In other words-- they will both return and there will be more retooling and half measures heading into 2017.

Not that I hate Hawk, but does anyone else get the feeling that as long as Jerry is around-- every non-player type role within the organization will also be around? There are simply no consequences at this stage of Jerry's life.

Didn't catch that. But does anybody believe the front office is functional? They obviously have no clue how to put together a playoff team, let alone a .500 team. Between that and the crappy farm system--this organization is in a very bad spot. As long as triumvirate of stupidity is here- we are hopeless.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 11, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) Why would Reinsdorf sell? Apparently his son who would inherit the Bulls and White Sox only wants to maintain the Bulls. With Jerry Reinsdorf's age getting up there, it comes to no surprise that talks of a sale are starting to pop up. Especially with White Sox not being close to a World Series Championship. In regards to them possibly leaving town. I just dont see that happening. The sweetheart stadium deal and the fact hey pocket so much revenue , which includes parking -- new ownership will be licking their chops at an opportunity to own this ball club. I just hope when Riensdorf actually does sell, he sells it to a competitive group that wants compete with the Northsiders for city supremacy.