GreatScott82

The Red Sox and White Sox are a perfect match for a trade. I can see something happening between the two clubs. I wonder what a Robertson/Quintana package would bring back?

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) That's what they're doing. I think Q might be dealt before this years deadline. I'm starting to get the feeling that they will hold onto Sale until after the season where you could potentially have 20 teams bidding for his services.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:40 AM) No. Robin's contract is up, and while I believe he won't be brought back, i'm really not sure what to think wrt the Sox anymore. Hahn and KW are probably safe. Part of their fate is likely bound up in how the trade deadline goes. The problem with KW/Hahn running the rebuild, they would probably sign Robin to an extension at seasons end. That's how pathetic this organization is right now. You have tremendous assets who can bring back incredible building blocks, but let someone else make those trades. Hahn/KW's time should be over.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:20 AM) I think everyone is skeptical of it but at the same time we just don't know either. We do know whatever the hell they've been doing for the past decade now hasn't been working though. I do know one thing, most fans want this rebuild/ new direction. They are tired of being 'mired in mediocrity' as Hahn mentioned. Personally, I feel the KW/Hahn duo should have no business running the rebuild. They are the ones to put the organization in this position, why should us fans be patient with them for another 4-5 seasons? I want a rebuild. I just do NOT want Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams running it. So my question for Soxtalk Nation is: Is there any chance in Hell, JR actually fires all three at seasons end? (Hahn/KW/Robin)

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 08:08 PM) On the flip side, even if you're getting the right players, half of them still won't pan out. With our scouts and current upper management, I'll be surprised if 20% of them pan out, hence my desire for a new GM to run this rebuild (if that is indeed what their doing) I am still pretty skeptical that they will go down this path.

I am still very reluctant to let Hahn/KW run a true rebuild. I almost feel they have had their chance over the past 8 years and blew it. Let someone else take charge of this new direction.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 07:43 PM) Say they trade both Sale and Q. You still have Rodon, Fulmer, and Shields. You're going to get back at least one - probably two frontline SP prospects like Urias and De Leon. You're also going to get some more projectable / further off SP prospects. We've also got Burdi, Adams, and Hansen. By 2018 you're also looking at FA options. In addition to these assets, you're also looking at adding a top flight CF, 3B, and 2B. Potentially you're filling 5 or 6 holes after creating two. That is key to the whole thing. If you deal BOTH Q and Sale we are talking about filling multiple needs and adding much needed depth to thin farm system.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 08:17 AM) 11th place team in the AL. Behind tenth place Yanks by one game, a team currently contemplating their first concerted selloff in decades... No point to update anymore when they're sub .500 and buried in an even worse position strategically than 2015. Yeah. The White Sox are not very good. In fact they have often been compared to the SD Padres for all of their failed re-tooling attempts over the last decade. It looks like even they are tired that strategy and are finally going to rebuild. Something we should have kept doing in 2015. It's time for whole sale changes from top-to-bottom. No more delusional wildcard aspirations and being buyers talk. This organization is a mess, it has multiple assets, but needs new leadership at the top to decide what to do with them. We cannot let Hahn/KW continue to run this organization into perpetual mediocrity any longer. As the late Owen Hart used to say, "enough is enough and it's time for a change".

Has JR ever fired a GM other than Hawk Harrelson? Seriously, Hahn and KW aren't going anywhere until he passes away and someone else assumes the role as majority owner. So sad and morbid we have to wait for that to finally see changes within upper management and correct all of this mess.

I chose sell like any rational Sox fan would do in our current situation. The sad thing is, I have zero faith in Hahn/KW bringing back proper value. Not only that, they are so stubborn, I can actually see them buying at the deadline. They are beyond desperate to make the playoffs as it will "justify" their Robin Ventura hire 5 years ago. Reality hurts. The team and roster they put together is average at best and their manager and coaching staff are not good enough to change that.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) Getting asses kicked by the Braves and Angels...yet Robin has a job He will have a job the rest of this season also. In fact, they will keep him around and continue to add and not subtract to this roster. Apparently being 4+ games out of a wildcard spot and getting their butts kicked by two of the worst teams in baseball isn't enough for them to waive the white flag. I'm convinced Rick Hahn and KW are delusional. Keep retooling this roster, dudes-- it will solve all of the problems!

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 17, 2016 -> 02:18 AM) I would like to tip my cap to Shields. He's bounced back very very nicely since his horrific first couple starts with Chicago. Give credit where credit is due. You know, I am the worst critic of our team not being good enough to contend. And I stand by that with catcher, DH, right field glaring weaknesses. We have 3-4 slots out of 9 pretty overmatched at this level. And I feel like no team with a catching combo like the Sox deserves to talk postseason. But ... the other part of me, the one that thought we would play the Cubs in the WS when we were 23-10 (great pitching and defense at that point!), says the Sox are grossly underachieving considering they have a big three of Sale, Quintana and Shields (Rodon wasn't too bad either; not great but not too bad) and a great closer in Robertson. You'd think maybe they'd eke out a wild card with guys like that as well as "name" everyday players Frazier, Cabrera, Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu and now Anderson). So I'm torn. If you held a gun to my head I'd stand by us just not being good enough, but I'd at least listen to those who think Robin and Coop are underachieving because of reasons just stated. For the most part the starting pitching has been solid all season with a few blips here and there. The bullpen started off hot, then couldn't get anyone out to being effective again (except Albers-- he's just bad). The problem with this mediocre team is the manager, coaching staff and offense. They are ranked the 3rd worst team in the AL in runs scored. If it weren't for Melky, Eaton and Anderson, they would probably be worse. And honestly, how much slack are we going to continue to give Frazier? Hitting around .200 is embarrassing anyway you spin it. I think Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams know pitching and know how to develop and produce good pitching. The issue is their very poor offensive/ position player scouting and development. Thier issue is also giving Robin a 5th opportunity to manage a team that obviously needs work with their offensive approach, they also need to be coached up when they are in a bit of a slide and Robin and his poor staff are simply not capable of making mechanical and psychological corrections to players in need. It takes a true baseball mind to identify those things with your players. Things are simply too stale with the staff, upper management and team. I would say lets 'blow it up' and spend the next 2-3 years putting together a young and exciting team. However, I really don't trust KW or Hahn to be in charge of a true rebuild. I feel they wouldn't get enough for trades involving Sale or Quintana. And I do NOT trust their position player scouting. Hell, I don't even trust them making a proper manager hire. Another part of me wonders, can a true baseball manager like Terry Francona or Don Mattingly be the difference maker this roster needs to push them to the next level? If there really is a three year plan 2015-17, why not just continue to add that outfielder that Hahn is looking for, have him locked up for 2017, bring in a new manager and give the bulk of this roster one more chance to prove themselves-- but this time with a new manager coaching staff? Which would then likely put KW/Hahn on the hot seat. If they fail in 2017, time for a new GM and a rebuild.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 06:15 PM) Rick Hahn said #WhiteSox continue to look for pieces. Knew it would be a difficult market. "It's a strong seller's market." https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/754080280076398592 If it's a sellers market, cut your losses and sell. This mediocre team will not be making the playoffs. If Hahn and KW waiste another opportunity to sell high on veterans, they need to be fired at seasons end. Oh wait-- that will never happen. Keep on retooling guys! You are doing such a good job!

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 10:44 PM) Sox having trouble solving former Sox pitcher. ... again. Why did we trade him again? Santiago would look good on our staff. im pretty sure the white sox acquired Eaton in the Santiago deal?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 10:25 PM) Seems like a lot of complacency in the Braves series and now this one. Still seems strange how they are handling the rotation this weekend. I blame all of that on this crappy coaching staff

Avi Garcia and Navarro= automatic outs

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 07:45 AM) Yeah, the problem is going to be he will end up with an innings limit of something like 150-170 next year. He's at 87 right now, and you'd guess he would probably end up around 40-60 innings over the remainder off the season out of the bullpen, putting him in the 127-147 total territory. It would be a LOT to expect 180-200 innings next year, especially if he ends up on the low side of that total. So the problem created will be finding yet another starter next year for 5-9 starts, roughly. That's the real opportunity cost, and his continued development as a starter in the minors (now that he has more confidence again) vs. lessons learned at the major league level, but as a reliever. And seemingly, Burdi won't be far behind Fulmer...it's definitely a gamble/calculated risk. Usually you will see first time MLB starters go no more than 6 innings per start during year one. They did this with Rodon and Sale if I remember correctly ? Since the Sox haven't been in the hunt every September, (other than 2012) inning/pitch concerns really have not been a concern with this team and their young starters. If Fulmer is up for good and he is a starter next year-- I say if he can get to 150 innings, that would be a success.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 15, 2016 -> 07:34 AM) This is really pretty simple guys, the team is desperate for a reliever and Fulmer is our best internal option at the moment. I highly doubt this has anything to with showcasing him for a trade and I definitely don't think it means they're writing him off as a starter. It's pretty clear, IMO, that the front office is doing whatever it can to salvage this season. Calling up Fulmer for the pen helps in that regard, even if it's not the best thing for his development. Yeah-- it seems to be the pattern this season. They are definitely in desperation mode as I mentioned before.

From everything what I read and heard, he is the worst clubhouse guy in baseball. An absolute clown.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) Serious question. Say the Sox went into full rebuild and traded everyone away. How many years of losing until you started moaning about years not in the playoffs and the rest? Could you go 3 years and not say a peep about the team on the field being awful? I doubt most can. The second half of 2013 and 2014 the Sox were clearly rebuilding, yet they hold the w-l record against the manager. There was tons of complaining about roster construction in 2014 with Konerko being brought back to be the 25th guy. I wouldn't call the second half of 2013-14 a rebuild. That time period is too truncated for an actual rebuild. Not only that, they didn't really focus on long term prospect development. They brought in guys who can contribute to the MLB roster immediately, with exception of a few pitchers and Matt Davidson-- who they intended on bringing up right away, but he just could not hit the ball. If they maintained the course of direction heading into 2015 and traded Alexei Ramirez when his value was at its peak, while maintaining the 2nd and 3rd round draft picks for 2015--I'd say OVERALL, the organization would be in a much better shape. The fact of the matter is, they went for it in 2015 and failed and the farm system once again took a back seat, which we are very much noticing this year with the lack of position player depth to help alleviate positional player injuries. Since this is year 2 of KW's phantom 3 year window, I really do not foresee them trading away veterans for an influx of youth. However, doing so may actually accelerate the rebuild that could have been if they stayed on that 2013-14 course of action. For instance, lets say they keep: Sale, Rodon, Eaton, Anderson and Abreu but decided to trade off veterans like: Quintana, Robertson, Melky and Frazier-- hello youth influx! A Quintana trade alone can bring in multiple position players with high level talent. We are talking a team's #1 prospect AND their #6-10 prospect. Robertson, Melky and Frazier would be very attractive pieces to a contending team and can also bring in some team's top 10 prospects as well. Selling high on players is something KW or Hahn rarely does. It something that can rock the foundation of an organization-- perhaps it is something this stale playoff-less organization needs to consider this deadline. It is either that OR another year watching October baseball from their couches coming up with new ways to 'retool' the same roster for 2017. (sigh)

The White Sox have a golden opportunity to tease everyone with another series win. However, they lose a series at home vs a horrible Atlanta team. This team is nothing more than an 82 win team. That will NOT be enough to win that second wildcard spot. I would say sell, sell, sell and either start prepping for 2017 and beyond. However, we all know what will happen. Hahn and KW will with stand pat and hope to catch lightning in a bottle ( their famous approach), OR they will sell off three or four of our best prospects for an impact bat. The sad thing is, I think it will be the ladder AND they will STILL miss the playoffs. That's how sad our organization is. Just imagine how many valuable prospects they can get for the likes of Quintana and Abreu. Or even Eaton, Melky and Frazier? It reminds me of the Alexei Ramirez situation of 2014-15. They had a golden opportunity to get more high quality near MLB ready prospects, but instead decided to keep him. We all know how Alexei did in 2015 I'm convinced Hahn and KW do not know when to sell high on veterans.

The White Sox are in such an odd spot right now. They have a lame duck manager, are in the middle of an odd 3 year window that KW claimed last year (2015-17), are 7+ games behind the tough Indians, yet are only 2.5 games back in the wild card race. The question they need to ask themselves is-- can we win the World Series his year? As of right now, they are nowhere near better than Cleveland, so is it too risky to simply trade prospects just to go for a wildcard spot? A risk of losing pieces of the future for the possibility to get knocked out of a one game playoff game. Or is it the plan to acquire a veteran that is locked up for the rest of 2016 and 17? A guy like CarGo or Bruce? The way I see it, Jackson and Morneau are one year rentals-- anything you get from them is a HUGE bonus to 2016. However, they need to have the mindset for the future as well. I'm all about retaining prospects and possibly even adding prospects this deadline. However, knowing KW and Hahn and seeing their patterns this season, I expect a HUGE deal made at the deadline that will likely sacrifice Fulmer, and possibly Spencer Adams. I'm calling it now, the White Sox will either acquire CarGo or Bruce right after the ASB.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jul 4, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) My guess is the answer depends on Brett Lawrie. First 33 games (23-10): .271 AVG, .817 OPS Next 35 games (9-26): .191 AVG, .570 OPS Last 13 games (9-4): .377 AVG, 1.079 OPS Seems like when Brett hits, the Sox win, and when he doesn't, they don't. Wow. Interesting stuff. I wonder what their record is since they inserted Tim Anderson into the lineup as well?

Winning three series in a row is nice, but a nice 7-8 game winning streak would actually make things interesting again. Last year a 7 game winning streak forced the front office to stand pat at the deadline-- which of course was immediately followed by a disastrous 2nd half. A very poor call by the Hahn/KW duo. This year it seems like Hahn/KW are in desperate mode-- so another 7 to 8 game winning streak will likely cause the front office to add a bat.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 29, 2016 -> 07:31 PM) The way the Astros and a couple other teams look, the Sox should have clarity soon that they're out of it. I think it's safe to say they are well beyond out of it. A team that can't beat the teams in their own division do not deserve to make the playoffs.