GreatScott82

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:31 PM) And when the talent level dropped in Oakland, it became apparent, Tony wasn't the reason they were winning. He also won a WS winning 83 games. That isn't going to happen much. Since your not blaming Robin and think managers have little to do with the game, I'm assuming your blaming KW and or Hahn for this crapfest?

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:15 PM) For me, a new manager needs to be one who makes the correct decisions. Can get this team up and going. Hold these guys accountable. This team and organization is a clown show. No consequences for the team president or GM who failed to put together a playoff team or rebuild a poor farm system since 2008. No consequences for a manager who failed to make the post season in his 4th straight season. A clown show is not to far off from an accurate statement. Apparently it's all Parents fault.

QUOTE (Tannerfan @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:03 PM) Al Davis never lost his desire to make the Raiders winners, he just got bad at doing it. Reinsdorf spends based on what's coming in. It's not that he doesn't want to win, it's just not the first priority, and he's not as sharp as he use to be. Also being slow to make changes is the problem. There's no other problem. That's my opinion. If you are slow at making necessary changes to help better your team, maybe it's time you consider selling it. KW should have been fired after the 2011 debacle with Ozzie. Robin should have been fired after 2013 or after this 2015 disappointment. I'm starting to believe Hahn is apart of this problem too now. If he's the guy making this announcement, he obviously wants Robin to return. Either that, or he is indeed JR and KWs puppet. This organization is truly falling into deep irrelevance. As a diehard Sox fan, this makes me beyond sad.

Normally a manager gets fired after two years of missing the postseason... Maybe his 5th years a charm?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) Samardzija was not a mediocre acquisition. He underperformed, but he still has surplus value on his cost. Plus, we have a very valuable draft pick coming from his dismissal. I liked this move then and I like it now. This was a well thought out, perfectly positioned move. The fact that Samardzija has performed the way he has and the Sox are in the position they are in shows how well-coordinated this move was. LaRoche was a mediocre signing. He had a great track record and in theory, I really liked the move but it just didn't work out. I don't know what happened to him but he had been consistent and he was a way of attacking a market inefficiency. He's been downright terrible and nobody expected it. Fortunately, he's got one year left and struggled with injuries more than it was reported. There's a decent chance he can be a plus contributor next year still. The Duke signing sucked. I hated it then and I hate it now. Just a terrible move that went against one of the things the Sox have always succeed with: spending money on relievers and spontaneous results. This one hurts but it's not a crippling number he's paid. Cabrera is the one that really bothers me. I was "eh" with it at the time but everything that happened since has made me really dislike it. Melky is a decent player and a good guy. I'll root for him but I agree with Hahn on this one. Kenny saw the offseason unfold and drank the kool-aid on the team. He went to Reinsdorf for the money and made this signing against Hahn's wishes. Hahn thought they could find a LF on the trade market that could contribute in the same ways at a lesser cost. The Sox owe him 2/29 and he doesn't have much room to make surplus value. What hurts me the most, is if he doesn't sign with us, we have a third round draft prospect/that pool money, an extra 14 million off the payroll and more importantly and a position we can get crafty with and add value. This should have been the final straw on KW but everyone knows it won't be. Good post. Well said. KW is a big problem. The 2013-14 Hahn-based moves were good and a step in the right direction. I guess what bothers me, is KW wanting to go all in and spend stupid money. If Hahn truly is not responsible for the "go for it now" and it was indeed KW, it definitely means that the men making personelle decisions are not on the same page. This will continue to blow up in their faces and kill this organization. Commit to a damn direction! Either put a premium on solidifying that new core, build up the farm or continue to overspend on players who will not perform up to expectations. Please go, KW! Please go, Robin! Let Rick do his job, bring in his own manager and let's do this the right way. It's not 2006 anymore. The game has changed quite a bit since then. Especially when it comes to the importance of developing in house talent.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 12:12 PM) His job. If his job means to 'retool' every year and to go under .500, your right- he has done a great job!

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) What has the team done that you can assuredly attribute to Hahn? That's the problem. Nobody knows. According to KW, all blame should go toward himself and not Hahn. So pretty much Hahn is still assistant GM?

QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) lets say, i trust Hahn. What has he done to earn your trust?

No more "retooling" crap. Acquire as many prospects as possible via trades and draft picks. This team has wayyyy too many holes to fix this offseason. Can they actually think long term for once? As long as KW is in charge, expect another 'retooling' crapfest of an offseason. I have lost all faith in this team to make the right decisions under KW's "guidance". The right moves: Fire KW and Robin and undergo a three year rebuild plan under a new regime (New President and Manager) The most likely outcome after the season: Robin gets an extension. KW sticks around. Signs some overpaid veterans who will contribute very little in 2016. Get in line for season tickets, next year will be different under Robin and KW. Whats the old saying, 5th year together is a charm?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 6m6 minutes ago Trayce Thompson batting 3rd for the first time today, in between Abreu and Cabrera. White Sox showing lots of faith in him. Deservedly so. 3 retweets 10 favorites Not bad for a guy that Rongey thinks is just a 4th outfielder or trade bait this winter. I hope he tears it up. He has been one of very few bright spots this season.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 13, 2015 -> 04:40 PM) I think the Sox have a good chance at last place. ... And Robin gets another extension at seasons end. That makes a bunch of sense.

First off, my first move would be to part ways with Robin. This team is desperate for a new identity and culture. IMO, that begins with bringing in a manager with a plan of attack. Hopefully KW leaves for another opportunity, but assuming he returns, I'll pray he does some of the following this winter: 1) Offer Samardzija that QO. From everything I'm hearing, he will likely decline in an attempt to net a bigger deal else were. This means the White Sox obtain a first rounder. Keeping ALL of their picks in 2016 should be priority #1. 2) Decline the player option on Alexei and move on. He is well beyond his prime. 3) Trade from the teams strength (pitching). Many posters here have mentioned the idea of trading Quintana. He ideally can net a pretty solid return given his age, cost and production. In a perfect world you can fill two positions with such trade and the Sox have holes at 3B, SS, 2B, C, and RF. (I think Avi can improve but he has had a down year that makes many concerned) 4) Give the prospects a chance and start the process of seeing what you have in house. 5) Avoid the temptation of signing FAs unless you it does NOT sacrifice a draft pick. 6) focus on adding depth to the farm system. I would consider dealing valuable veterans like Cabrera and Robertson if it means adding needed prospects to farm to better increase the teams chances for 2018 and beyond. With all the holes on this roster, I am more focused on adding prospect depth over MLB roster depth. This team needs to undergo a rebuild. This rebuild can be accelerated via trades and wise personelle decisions made by upper management. Unfortunately, I don't trust upper management anymore... The retooling will likely continue and the sub.500 mediocre baseball will commence on the Southside. Oy vey.....

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 7, 2015 -> 07:22 AM) If the sox blew it, so did the other 10 teams who missed the playoffs. Anytime you miss the playoffs it's a failure. It doesn't matter what team you are. This will be the 7th straight season this team has missed the playoffs. This will be the 4th straight under the KW/Hahn/Robin regime. No worries their jobs are safe though... Just to think... If they would have just undergone a true rebuild plan in three of those 7 seasons, how much better off they'd be in. Just keep "retooling" Rick and Kenny, it's working out greeeeeatt!

I hate to go all Vince McMahon on you but.... There is no chance in hell this team makes that 2nd wildcard. This team can't even play .500 baseball. They had a golden opportunity this year with a mediocre AL and they blew it. It's time to start thinking about 2016. Let's see what these kids can do. #letTraycePlayEveryday

I really can't see much of an argument that justifies keeping KW or RV. I'm still on the fence with Hahn, but im losing hope in that area as well. The sad thing is, I really don't see any moves being made under the Reinsdorf loyalty regime. Pretty much any GM and manager in this league would have been fired after year 2 with those dog crap numbers. Especially if you didn't even partake in a rebuild. THey are on year 4 together and haven't been in contention since September of 2012. What am I missing here? They made little progress in advancing the farm system, over valued the "new core" and have been playing musical chairs with guys at 3b and 2b. Seriously, I believe this "3 year plan" was pulled out of thin air in an effort to make Sox fans believe they are making progress. Luckily, Sox fans are not naïve, we are tired of the suck fest and want someone new calling the shots at the top of this withering mountain. We are not afraid of a rebuild.. In fact, we would embrace a rebuild.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) So one position player in 10 years justifies KW sticking around? This. KW has made more bad moves than good ones over the past 10 seasons. Its time for him to go. I was once a big time KW supporter but its time for a change. Things are way too stale around here.

I would really like to see Thompson in the lineup every day from this point forward.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Aug 23, 2015 -> 03:00 PM) Yet, their play has proven that they aren't a serious contender. Its hard to consider a team a contender if they are 6 games under .500 in August. We should probably stop the whole wildcard talk. If they can get to .500 and they are within 3 games at some point in September, than maybe we have a case. Unfortunately, I highly doubt this happens.

They need more power. That normally comes from the 3b position. Since my hope is for them to go younger and not spend $ via free agency, which consequently sacrifices draft picks, they need to looki into a major trade to fill that spot this winter. It will most likely be shades of 2013. Trade pitchers for positional players. Saladino is the perfect utility fielder going forward. I like Tim Anderson in the SS role as early as next season. He will take his bumps, but he is progressing quite well down in the farm. In regards to 2B, this is where I'm conflicted. Carlos Sanchez is a tremendous defense 2B, but his offensive struggles were more than evident. If he can figure out how to hit at the MLB level similar as he did down in Charlotte, you are looking at a potential all star. With signs of his bat coning alive, I would like to see how he finishes the season before they officially decide what to do here. With Micah Johnson you have the complete opposite. He was completely lost defensively, but he brings more offensive punch to the lineup. My hope is that he works on his glove and footwork all offseason and eventually figures it out because his speed can provide the offense with a much needed spark. I guess I would let them both battle it out yet again via spring training. Perhaps even a new manager can bring something different to the table for both of these players?? Only time will tell.

Wow..Can this possibly finally be the end of the KW era?? I'll believe it when I see it. But I'm intrigued that many of our insiders think KW will go after the season. I really don't understand the logic of them coming out and saying "RV isn't going anywhere" If this is the case, I truly hope he decides to step down on his own.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 03:52 PM) Then they should be trading their best mlb assets to further that goal, because otherwise you are wasting them on mediocre, meaningless seasons. There are 3 paths to go down at this juncture: 1) Recognize you have Sale/Abreu/Rodon and push all your chips into the middle and try to win over the next few years. Trade anything from the minor leagues that isn't bolted down to try and take advantage of the elite talent you have currently on the big league roster; 2) Continue building from the ground up, recognizing that you need to develop position players to balance out the young pitching you've been developing. Hope you can do this quickly enough to find a window before Sale/Abreu/Rodon leave via FA or their skills begin to erode; and 3) Balance the present with the future, recognizing you have elite talent on the roster now, but not enough. Move assets deemed not part of your "future" to bring in assets that can contribute now or in the near future. It's pretty clear that our FO chose the third path. The risk of taking the path you're advocating for is that by the time this all comes together, you may have wasted Sale and Abreu's best years, and some of Rodon's best years. At some point, you've got to recognize what you've got and give these guys an opportunity to make the postseason. This was well written. I appreciate your input. I am indeed advocating for a farm system build up. However, this can be accelerated with the trades of your most desirable assets- Sale or Abreu or even both. Or you can try to accelerate this by dealing off the 2nd level of assets in Melky or Quintana. If you trade off your 2nd level of assets and keep Sale and Abreu, you are definitely hoping you can bring back MLB ready positional guys who can contribute as early as 2016. My issue with this route is that we may be in fact waisting the prime years of both Sale and Abreu and will just continue to be mediocre. The White Sox as they currently stand are essentially in baseball hell. What I mean by this is that they have limited assets coming up from the farm system and they have aging veterans under performing. I really have zero faith that this team can compete next year with the current constructed roster or with the guys they plan on promoting from the minors in 2016: (Anderson, E. Johnson, M. Johnson, Thompson, Montas etc..) It will likely take a full season to truly assess their progress at the MLB level. At best they will likely win 75 games. That pretty much means it will be yet another season wiped away for Sale and Abreu. Hence stuck in baseball hell. With all of this said- upper management needs to pick on a direction and stick to it. This season pretty much exemplifies that this team was not yet ready to truly compete for a division title. As excited as we were to 'compete again', we just were not ready to do that yet. Eaton, Garcia still have work to do. Micah Johnson needs to learn how to play defense and they identified the fact that they need upgrades at SS AND C. In order to let players like Micah Johnson and Tim Anderson figure it out at the MLB ready, we must be patient. My hope is that they sell off assets in attempt to accelerate position player depth development. Give it two more seasons to develop, trade for and draft prospects before they truly go for it. If the fear is that Sale and Abreu will be washed up by 2018, then maybe they should consider selling high early rather than later.... Because if they do choose the route of prospect patience, development and farm system growth- they should be pretty darn close by 2018. No more middle ground, they need to choose a direction and go with it. If Hahn is truly a fan of 'sustained success', then this is the path to explore.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) I still fail to see how the past offseason created inflexibility in regards to the framework of this team over the next few years. The whole purpose of the direction they took was to balance today with tomorrow. While I was not a fan of the LaRoche signing, it won't cripple us. The other deals are not blocking anyone who's knocking down the door at Charlotte, with the possible exception of Johnson, who can be brought up in less than 2 weeks. I just can't understand why the fact that they took a shot on '15 and missed has some devastating consequences for '16 and '17. Although the moves they made in the offseason doesn't necessarily hurt the 2016 or 2017 chances for the main roster, they still lost out on a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick during this years amateur draft. At this point, they need to be focusing on building up a farm system that still ranks on the bottom half of baseball.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:45 AM) JR will probably decide that RH still needs a babysitter. Based on this season, hard not to see otherwise. KW most likely had more influence on the free agency acquisitions and the Samardzija trade than Hahn did. If KW is 'babysitting' Hahn, we sure as hell need a new babysitter running the shots or just give Rick the chance to do his job properly. Its more than evident that things have gone stale with KW at the top. The organization needs a philosophical change and it starts with letting KW leave.

The Sox cannot sacrifice any more draft picks. If they want more offense, they better trade for it. The only name that intrigues me that will most likely be available via trade this winter is Puig.

Chris Rongey needs to go. I really hope WLS does not bring him over. He brings zero knowledge to pre and post game analysis and just states the obvious. I find it strange that the things he argues are completely out of left field in an attempt to support Robin as a manager. He claims that players cannot be taught new things at the MLB level, that they are what they are. I find this logic ridiculous. if this is the case, and it is all on the players, why doesn't he ever blame Hahn or KW for putting this crappy team together? In regards to Ozzie JR. He will say anything to make his old man look good, even if it's at the expense of other people. In summary... Rongey and Ozzie JR need to go away.