joeynach

A long time ago someone was posting White Sox Spreadsheets with team payroll with a very good format. It was a color coded format where the different colors represented Team Buy outs, options, Arbitration Eligibility, or Guaranteed. I was wondering if the creator or another user still has this format and if they could post it and contact me via private message, thanks fellas.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 02:59 AM) I would really like to see Kenny sign Colon to an incentive laden contract....if that pays off, we will be golden. Low risk, high reward....and I know KW loves the guy.... Anyone know of any latest news on Colon? Anything positive regarding his health? Word through the media is colon cant hit above 90 on the gun and also wanted 2 years at a minimum of 9-10 per year. So no thanks.

Zips projections are rough to figure out. They take into account pure statistics but fail to take into account things such as intagibles. For example for the projections for MB are always pretty poor due the inputs into his equation. Doesn't overpower, doesnt throw hard, doesnt strike out a lot of guys, does give up a lot of hits, plays half his games in a hitter friendly park. Given those inputs its no wonder his raw projection would take on something like 11-11 with a 4.3 ERA. Problem is we all know MARK knows how to pitch, hes knows how to get guys out without throwing 95, knows how to get guys out with them putting the ball in play, etc. That sort of stuff isn't taken into account in zips. Furthermore, unless a player has a really bad year he usually doesn't come that close to his Zips projections. In 2006 zips was way off in terms of Thome, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Crede, etc in most offensive categories, they all had very nice years. In 2007 most of them had down years and looked very similair to their Zip projections. My opinion on Zips is that is good for the younger less proven, less established players. Its good in giving us at least a ballpark of what to expect of the unknown; fields, quinten, egbert, wasserman, richar, etc.

This is stupid, KW is being stubborn. Anything he can actually get now is like his 5th or 6th option at that position, whats that gonna do, get us to 77 wins in this division. He tried to go for the gusto, it didn't work out, time to reevaulate and consider their position in the league and division. Sticking to the gameplan at this point seems rather foolish and illogical. I swear KW and Lovie Smith must be brothers.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) I actually think I may go to more Brewers games this year. The best way to tell management that a fire sale is necessary is by my empty seat. I really have trouble believing how we went from World Champs willing to spend to silence. Thats baseball get used to it. And if your dont believe me check with the Dbacks and Marlins.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) Considering our attendance directly impacts our payroll, if we go young and completely suck, season tix sales will go down, and we'll never be able to afford any of those guys. Thats where having a fiscally responsibly organization comes into play. Where if they have to go young one year they can absorb that impact from either cash on hand or operating profit from years past. Plus aren't teams getting like $20 extra Mil a year now from MLB.TV and such. I still believe this team could do some new marketing and sponsorship deals for 2009 to help offset lost 2008 season tix as well. Its not a black and white are you are making it out to be.

I dont get all this go for it all in 2008 business from KW. If anyone bothered to look at the landscape of the division they can see that 2009 would present a good case for the "go all out" philosophy. After the 2008 season the three top left handers are all free agents; Santana, Sabathia, and Rogers. The best closer in the divison, Joe Nathan, is also a free agent. Edgar Renteria is a possible Free Agent, Todd Jones will be a free agent, Ivan Rodriguez will be a free agent, Paul Byrd will be a free agent, Joe Borowski will be a free agent. The point is why 2008 when 2009 looks so much more winnable by landscape. There could be a lot of good players leaving the AL Central by 09. Seems to me like it would make sense to build for 2009-2010 as "our time". I think 2008 has already been decided for us by the way the FA and trade market played out. Whats so bad about trading Crede and getting prospects, playing Fields at 3B everyday, Quentin/Sweeney in LF, Owens/Anderson in CF, and Richar at 2B, Floyd/Danks/Broadway in the rotation. If they show a lot of promise over 2008 then in the offseason we can re-evaulate and decide if we should trade them to bring in some impact players, keep them, add FA's, etc etc.

Time to play the kids. Trade Crede now and bring in some prospects. Let Fields play everyday at 3B and develop. Let Richar play everyday at 2B and develop. Let Quentin/Sweeney play everyday in LF and develop, let Owen/Anderson play everyday in CF and develop. Buehrle, Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ aren't going anywhere the sox still need to put butts in the seats and create revenue streams. You can dump Uribe hes worthless. See what your guys can do and re-evaluate after 2008. The division for 2009 might look very very different. Santana, Sabathia, Nathan, Rogers are free agents. Pudge, Sheffield, and Renteria are all have their contracts up. If there is anytime to go for it, its 2009, and I think someone should remind KW of this.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 01:19 AM) I am afraid you may be right and If that happens the off season is a total disaster. Well Bruce Levine reported this morning the sox were in on fukudome and bid the same amount as the cubs. He said he chose the cubs becuase he wanted to stay in RF, not displace Dye, and was intrigued by the idea of being the cubs first japanese player.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 01:26 AM) This is right. I think the reason that folks often say that a team "overpaid" is because they compare to whatever contracts were given the year before. But the market increases every SINGLE year -- no matter what Kenny Williams thinks. That's why you can look back and see guys like Reggie Jackson and Joe Rudi, in the first free agent crop, getting about $500,000 a year. That seems silly now. And it's because we understand, intuitively, that the market increases. In fact, the only time that the market didn't increase was 1987 -- and the reason was collusion. That doesn't mean that there aren't bad signings. But there's risk in almost any enterprise. So -- you either go along, or you build another way. But if you're a GM or an owner, you don't whine about it. You don't like it? Find another line of work. And this brings me to my key phrase when I tell my friends who whine about their boyfriends/girlfriends. "You dont have to like it, you just have to accept it".

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 12:34 AM) At this point, just blow it the f*** up and start over. I am 100% with you. But doens't that involve KW ditching the "plan" and swallowing his pride on what he has laid forth. He got beat in the trade and FA markets, it happens and will happen again. Thats the nature of the game, uncertainty. We all know how stubborn this guy is though. At some point plan 1-F just cant be really that much better, if it all, then just letting the kids play and develop. I swear KW and Lovie Smith must be related.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 12:16 AM) Thank you. Of course he's overpaid. He was a free agent. I'm still waiting for anyone to give one single instance of a free agent (without injury concerns) not getting overpaid. As overpayment goes, how much did we overpay by? A few million. 3? 4? 5? How much did Hunter get overpaid by? $20 million? 25? 30? What about Matt Wise who just got DFA'd by the Brewers. Hes not lights out but hes pretty effective, a high 3 or low 4 ERA guy. Hes got pretty good numbers against lefties I think their career BA off him is just .225. Would serve well against AL central foes with the likes of Hafner, Morneau, Maur, VMart, Sizemore, etc.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) He did outbid 28/29 teams. So he was like 95% right on that one. I can't believe the Angels are paying Gary Matthews and Torii Hunter $140 million. The Angels are paying Gary Matthews and Torii Hunter $140 million. I was talking with a couple die hard baseball friends of mine. Both told me that they heard the reason the Angels kinda of came out of nowhere is because KW let his contract offer go public. Basically it shook down like Hunter was all set to sign with the sox, then for whatever reason KW or his people informed the media that they were close to signing Hunter for 5/75. At this point the Angels stepped in becuase they thought the bidding was already over 90 Mil and by KW or the sox public decree that it was still at 75 Mil the Angels thus decided to spend a few extra mil a year to make him an Angel. Wow wouldn't that be so KW. If its true he should lose his job instantly, anyone should.

QUOTE(jenks45monster @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:58 PM) I would have liked the Japanese way. Wish we would have signed both for 2/9.5 deal. Would have signed them to that without even seeing them pitch. Japanese players are extremely disciplined and have amazing work ethics. And that would have filled 2 relief spots instead of 1 and taken 2 Japanese relievers away from our rivals Im not saying they have to throw hard to be effective, but I think the knock on going the Japanese way is that they typically dont over 90. And in the AL i think its rather imperative to have a good life on your fastball. I dont really know much about the two japanese guys in question but Im just generalizing.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:50 PM) There were other options out there -- the Japanese relievers signed by CLE and KC. The Sox were supposedly interested in the guy that signed with KC. The other option is to give Broadway, Egbert, Aardsma (at least he was briefly good last year), Gio, Haegar, and MacDougal shots at jobs and save the money. I think some of those guys still will get a shot. I think we all forget how thin our pen was/is. I remember hearing coop on the score before thanksgiving saying its basically going to be Jenks, Macdougal, Thornton, Linebrink, Wasserman, Logan, and 1 of the Gio/Broadway/Egbert contigent.

QUOTE(jenks45monster @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:36 PM) Your forgetting to think about the money. 4.25 mil a year for a reliever coming into the AL and to one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in U.S. Cellular. And he is past his prime. I dont think anyone doubted that hes overpayed. He 100% is. But what else was KW gonna do. Trot out Bukvich and Dewon Day again, go bring Riske back. I mean Linebrink might not be Joba Chamberlin what what are other options did we have to improve our pen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:26 PM) I'm not so sure he hits 18 homers if he plays there. Could very well be its a place HR hitters go to die.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:25 PM) Not quite sure what you're getting at there. Maybe his splits over those years, which aren't bad at all. If that's the case, so be it. Otherwise, his trends aren't exactly good and his last 30+ games last season he got pretty touched up. Something to think about before you say the guy had no research and false claims. Dont underestimate the power of a shut down Pen, they win Championships. We saw that with the Red Sox this year and White sox in 2005. When you can shorten the game with automatic outs in the 7th 8th 9th u are in good shape. Im not saying Linebrink is the answer, obviously hes an upgrade over Day or Bukvich, but dont underestimate the need for a quality bullpen. I think thats is what the overpaying for relief concept is about, a ton of games can be lost or won in the last few innings depending on bullpen strength, looks like some (desperate) teams are just willing to overpay for that.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:17 PM) The Giants were hot on Rowand and have been in contact with his agent. They are a team desperate for offense that have been speculated to go to 5 years with him. The Padres will also help bring up the heat as well. Its Jerry Owens in CF this year guys. Konerko becomes a 5 and 10 guy in May. Lets blow this up proper and send him and Crede to the Angels for some major prospects and call it a season, reload and come back ready to fight the following year. Im with you let the idiot teams make idiot moves. If someone like the giants wants to give Rowand 5 Years 65 Mil to hit .275 and 18 HRs then good luck. Play your kids, move the vets, and wait for detroit to lose half their 35 year old + roster after 2008.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 03:16 AM) I hope like hell that Kenny and Ozzie are right about them. My own opinion is Danks would make a good #5 and Floyd didn't show much of anything. Seems like they're hitching their wagons to these guys, so I hope they surprise me. I'm not counting on it. Our lightening in the bottle was Jenks. Yea it would be nice to find a SP that way. The way Cole Hamels came up, or even Zach Duke and Oliver Perez their first years with Pit, Jered Weaver, etc. I guess Danks is supposed to be that guy hes the first round pick.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) And that's what it would be. Why pay $9M or whatever Pierre gets for Owens aged a few years. I think the Sox end up with Rowand in CF. Is owens a lock for a .280 AVG with a .350 OBP??

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) Even with his career year in 2006 Crede still couldn't even make it to Type B status for this offseason, he won't bring back any sort of compensation unless he has an MVP caliber season and even then he'd only be a Type B free agent. Crede will probably agree to a 1 year deal worth around $5M before the Wednesday deadline, he won't be non-tendered, the Sox wouldn't let it end that way. Im still not even sold on Crede. Everyones offensive numbers were erratic in 2006. There was something about our lineup that made everyone just light it up for career years. My gut tells me the addition of a healthy Thome really infused our 06 lineup and made everyone around him better. Im not sure Crede is a locked .280 hitter yet. I expected his 2007 to regress towards the mean and they did but Im also not sure how much (or little) the back played into it. I think 2008 would be a pretty telling year for him. If he is a .250 hitter you will know this year, if hes not and has a solid year say .280/25/75 I think that would make enough of a case to try and get him for 3-4 years at 8-10 mil per.

The deadline to offer arbitration or non tender players is Wednesday. Are the white sox going to offer arbitration to Crede. They cant just non tender him and get nothing for this guy. Even if they cant agree and they have to go to arbitration there is no way Crede gets more than $5 or $6 Mil coming off a .220 year that ended in June with back Surgery. But even if they pay him that and eat the $ would they get a supplemental draft pick if he departs after 08. Would he be a type A free agent. It seems the right thing to do here is either sign him or offer the arbitration to at least guarantee you will get something from/for him. RIGHT??

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:10 PM) Didn't 27 other teams fail to get MCab and Hunter? 27 other teams didn't have delusions of grander that they were moral locks to get them for one reason or the other. You put all your eggs in 1 basket....you lose.

QUOTE(yoyozuna @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) I was wondering the same thing unless they have plans for Mora. I read that on prosportsdaily. I agree that would be an awesome 1, 2 combo but the other two (pierre/crisp) would be pretty good to. If Crisp only has two years left at a MAX of 9 mil a year and Pierre at about the same for 4 yrs. Could be a bargain with the way the market is right now. PierreCrisp would give us what we lacked in a table setter. I don't know why but I keep picturing ESPN coming on with a Picture of Pierre in a SOX cap. Remember Kenny's best moves are the ones that come out of nowhere. No doubt Pierre is fast and steals a ton of bases. Someting just bothers me about him being a locked down solid lead off hitter. I just dont remember his OBP being that high, he seemed more like a .280 hitter with a .350 OBP type guy, not bad but rather Iguchi like in essence.