fathom

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) I'd say his brutal defense is clearly the biggest downside, along with his paycheck. At the plate, he brings a lot. Considering we've had terrible defense out of the left field for basically the entire 21st century, his poor defense doesn't bother me. Hell, at least he has a great throwing arm.

If they're white and know how to bunt.

I know it's early and the games don't matter, but Indiana is far and away the best team I've seen during these exhibition games on the Big 10 Network.

Horrible news about Eckstein at the bottom of this article. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...9A?OpenDocument

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) Kornerko to LAA for Aybar, Willits, Santana. Crede to Boston for Crisp. Garland to Colorado for Fuentes and Stewart. LF Willits ($.5) CF Crisp ($4) DH Thome ($15) RF Dye ($11) CA Pierzynski ($6) 1B Fields ($.5) 3B Ian Stewart ($.5) SS Aybar ($.5) 2B Richar ($.5) SP Buehrle ($14) SP Vazquez ($11.5) SP Contreras ($10) SP Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert/Santana ($.5) SP Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert/Santana ($.5) CL Jenks ($.5) RP Thornton ($1) RP Fuentes($3.5) RP MacDougal ($2) RP Russell/Day ($.5) RP Wasserman ($.5) Payroll ~ $55million Alot younger. Alot faster. Alot cheaper. A lot worse. That would be the worst team in the majors.

I was thinking about this the other day, and it's really depressing to think of how bad Paxson has done with this team over the last few years.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 02:03 AM) and he'd probably be a Type A at the end of next season... So assuming you're trading Crede for Burrell straight up, you're getting burrell for a year plus 2 pick sin the following season for one season of Joe Crede. Sounds good to me. But since he can't bunt or run well, he'd be a cancer on the team.

QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 01:57 AM) Did someone say Pat Burrell? Why the heck would we want another feat-or-famine, HR-or-K guy in this lineup? Enough already. Damon I can live with, but only if (as someone else suggested) the Yankees help with the contract. To be honest, I want a young CF of the future. The Mets will be in the market for a SP - probably setting their sights on Santana, but maybe willing to settle for Garland if they can't work it out. Go get Milledge. Yeah, Burrell and his fantastic OBP would just be disasterous.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 01:32 AM) No s*** its stupid. Even worse to have Coco Crisp at his salary, and to have lost a player for him. Trust me, I want nothing to do with Crisp.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 12:24 AM) Agree. He needs more "kid glove" handling than most. You probably have a less bias view of this than I do. What's your opinion on the way Ozzie is handling the maturity of the young players on and off the field? It seems like he's been quick to give up on a few players (when I say quick, I mean in months, not days). When he does get down on these guys, there's really no coming back. It seems like Anderson, Masset, and Aardsma fall into this category. If we're going to try and get younger, I just hope our manager/GM have more patience than they've shown.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 12:24 AM) Sounds to me like Crede is already traded. I completely agree with this. I'll be surprised if he's with the organization at this point next week. Hopefully he's traded for Pat Burrell or Damon, and not some AAAA pitcher.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 4, 2007 -> 12:13 AM) Hey CWS, You might want to check your own post for useless hyperbole. I noticed this: "Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f-ing person within the organization .... " Anderson isn't that good. There's a reason why he hasn't broken through, and despite what's claimed on this site, it has absolutely zero to do with bias or "ball massaging". If you think otherwise, that's fine by me, and we will agree to disagree. I don't think Anderson is very good. He looks like a pitcher at the plate with his 3-level swing. However, I don't think we handled his development very well. The problem is it's too late for him to have a future with the Sox, and we're going to get nothing for him when he's dealt this offseason. Luckily, we were able to get some potential MLB quality players when we dealt McCarthy. I fully expect Sweeney to become the next overrated Sox prospect that falls out of favor with the organization.

If that doesn't get Weis fired, I don't know what will.

That's a disgusting call on Navy.

Going into 2008 with Owens as your starting CF is stupid. With all the tough lefties in the division, you'd have to have a back-up outfielder getting way too many significant at-bats.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 07:41 PM) Let us not forget about Podsednik's role that season. We also had Rowand and Iguchi swipe 16 and 15 bases respectively. Putting pressure on the defense and opposing pitcher is a big deal in consistently scoring runs every day. No, holding your opposition to 1 or 2 runs was the reason we were winning. Also, having a bullpen that was pretty much a guarantee to hold on to a win from the 7th inning on helped a lot also. Now, I'm not saying we can't have a terrific bullpen again...but we're a far way from that right now.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:48 PM) So what do you envision for our starting lineup? If it's going where you think it should...that's all we need to do is get slower. I don't care about overall speed. It's all about finding more guys who can get on-base. I'm still of the belief that Ozzie Guillen is not the proper manager for a team with a 3-4-5 of Thome, Konerko, and Dye. I'm cringing at all the talk about having everyone on the team bunt, etc. With our mediocre pitching staff, playing for one run isn't going to help.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:43 PM) It isn't as much the competition as much as providing another option for our coaching staff. Clearing Crede would allow Fields to step in and play 3rd as well, so it's not like we'd be losing a projected starter when we're going to go after a new CF anyway. This is also assuming Owens moves over to LF. It should also be noted that a deal like this would save us around 6 or 7 million to go towards a FA or a big contract we're about to trade for. I don't want Owens anywhere near the starting lineup for the Sox. Let him be the 5th outfielder/designated pr.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:38 PM) So bringing in another player to compete with those guys in Spring is a bad idea? You lost me. Yes, because if you're trading projected starting players on this team, bringing in a fringe major league with mediocre stuff isn't going to help this franchise. Maybe it's me, but competition in spring training might be the most overrated aspect in all of sports.

QUOTE(max power @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:37 PM) Dumping hall seems pretty dumb right now. Sell low, huh? It's not a matter of getting anything back...it's a matter of getting him out of the organization. However, Lucy is absolutely terrible though, so I don't see the Sox pursuing this.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) Like who? Damon is the player I was talking about. I don't consider Gio, Floyd, or Danks anything more than AAAA right now.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:24 PM) I'd just like to see us get another arm to compete for a rotation spot because I believe we'll deal Garland and I HOPE we deal Contreras as well. And as far as FA goes this year for SP....I hope we can stock pile a few more young arms to compete with Danks, Floyd and Gio for back end spots. We have enough AAAA pitchers in our system right now. If you trade Crede, and have the chance to get a major league starting player in return, you make that trade.

FWIW, the Yanks want Molina to return as their back-up catcher next year.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 06:13 PM) He had a 2.70 ERA in AAA last year and has a great changeup. He doesn't have overwhelming stuff but he really knows how to pitch. If the Damon/Crede deal were to go down- there is no doubt the Yanks would throw in a chunk of dollars. Will people please stop using the ERAs for people in the IL as a reason a pitcher might be good! The caliber of hitting in the IL has never been worse.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) Hopefully it's for a AAA arm that can compete for a back end rotation spot next year. I know it's a reach to say that, but if the Yanks really want Crede to be their starting 3Bagger, I'd have to think they'd be willing to part with one of their young arms. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be one of their top tier young arms or anything crazy like that. But perhaps for a Matt DeSalvo who is like 4th in line to make their MLB rotation. DeSalvo sucks. I'd have no problem with a Crede for Damon trade, as long as the Yanks throw in some money.