fathom

I thought KW had shown a lot of interest in Vazquez in the past?

It's amazing that 149 games into the season, Ozzie still has no feel for which pitchers should be in to face which batters. Cotts has some of the best numbers I've ever seen from a lefty in regards to facing righties.

While this season seems to hit road block after road block, the one thing that stays consistent is that soxtalk.com is a great place to come to and talk about our beloved team. I know everyone expresses their emotions for the team in a different way, but there's no better site for discussing what is going on with this team. I just wanted to thank everyone in charge with running this place, and my fellow Sox fans.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) Until they're eliminated, the Sox are IN. I don't think Cleveland could have played a much better game than they did last night and they still barely beat us and Ozzie pretty much handed them the game. Sorry, but I still don't fear this Indians team. Casey Blake dropped a flyball, which lead to a big inning. The Indians also had massive warning track power last night, as they could have easily been up 5-0 in the 2nd inning. I bet the Indians fans are saying how great of a comeback the Sox made last night, and it still wasn't good enough to beat them.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Voting? What in the hell are you talking about? Ozzie was chosen by the hand of God Himself to win that award. There is no way he could lose. Remember when I got into an argument comparing Ozzie to Frank Robinson about two months ago? Some poster on this site was saying in early August that Ozzie should never be criticized because he would be the MotY. My response to that was: Yeah, and after June, Frank Robinson would have won NL MotY. It's a 162 game season....and all it takes is a 4 game winning streak by the Sox to reverse this awful karma. We've done it numerous times before this season.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:06 PM) Oh, pfft. What would you people know? You've only been fans for years upon years. Ozzie is the AL MANAGER OF THE YEAR!!!1!1 Didn't you know? Voting for all awards takes place on July 31st.

We've also lost about 5 games in the Wild Card lead in the last 10 games to the Yankees. Again, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else says right now. If this team doesn't make the playoffs, the 2005 White Sox team will be as synonymous with the word choking as the 1919 White Sox were with gambling.

There's a lot of irony in this thread.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) 90 wins, 2.5 game lead, playing .605 on the season, still probably going to the playoffs...and your crying. Hell, I'd take 90+ wins EVERY year even if it meant missing the playoffs. I got a team 5 miles north I think you should cheer for. Fans like you are more fitting for them. The Cubs don't have to worry about fan backlash and lackluser attendance the following season if they had a collapse like the Sox are having. One of the biggest negatives of a Sox collapse is that attendance would likely decrease next year. Now, I wouldn't care about attendance if it didn't have a direct impact on the team's payroll. But since it does, that's a big concern for future seasons.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:38 AM) Wrong on the OF prospects. They've got Carlos Quentin, Jon Zeringue and Josh Kroeger who are in their top 5 prospects. I was just going off the fact they have S. Drew and Connor Jackson in the infield in the years to come, as well as the possibility of Justin Upton in the outfield. Since we lack any big time infield prospects to trade, our best minor league chips are either Sweeney/Young or Gio. I'm definitely more interested in Tracy than Overbay.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:30 AM) I don't know about that. I'd say Arizona would prefer good young pitching, than to established pitching right now, considering they have Vazquez, Webb, Ortiz, Halsey and Vargas in there. For instance, a Marte, Bajenaru, Haigwood package may look appealing to them. Can't Vazquez make himself a FA this offseason? Also, I'm pretty sure that the package you suggest wouldn't be enough to get such a promising hitter like Tracy. I guarantee the DBacks could get a better deal than that. Remember, the DBacks have been close a couple of times to acquiring Contreras. Also, the DBacks don't have a lot of good outfield prospects in their system. They might be very interested in the likes of Sweeney or Young.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:24 AM) And I think Chad Tracy is going to end up being that guy, and I hope so, because I'd take over Lyle Overbay who I know most people want as the replacement 1B/DH. Tracy will cost us Contreras.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:24 AM) And I think Chad Tracy is going to end up being that guy, and I hope so, because I'd take over Lyle Overbay who I know most people want as the replacement 1B/DH. It's too late for me to look up stats, but from what I observe, Overbay is a terrible 2nd half player.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:17 AM) Yeah exactly what I thought. Speaking of Nomar, he's probably headed to the Dodgers or somewhere else, but if he is going to play 3B, could possibly be an option, but I doubt people would be for it. I'd be all for it. It won't happen though. From what I've heard, he's not exactly a White Sox fan.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:16 AM) I'd say Adrian Beltre could be had, although I know most here probably wouldn't be in favor of that. Shea Hillenbrand's another. If you just look at the position, only about 8 or 9 players who play 3B everyday, have an OPS over .800. It's hard to find a good hitter there. Shea's not a 3b anymore. I'd be all for an Iguchi for Beltre trade, as 2nd baseman are easier to find. The Mariners might be interested in boosting their Japanese market some more. It will be interesting to see if Crede can continue hitting well with his new hand adjustment. Sometimes I think that if we can boost our offense at DH, etc., that we should bring him back for one season. I don't really mind a 7-8-9 of AJP, Uribe, and Crede. We have got to find a legit number 3 hitter.

FWIW, I had no clue how crappy Blalock was doing during this 2nd half of the season. Could be a good buy low type of risk.

If we're going to lose PK, we need to do more to upgrade the offense than going from Crede to Mueller.

Our biggest liability the past few years has been 3b production, and Blalock is clearly the best offensive 3b that has the slightest chance of being obtained. I'm a big advocate of the Sox trading Contreras this offseason for a big time offensive hitter as Jose's stock will never be higher. Obviously, Marte will be traded, and I think it's safe to say that Sweeney's stock has fallen big time this season. I would actually try and get Dunn from the Reds for that similar package.

So Jason Bay will get traded to the Cubs in 2007?

Giles and Mueller would be good additions, even though I don't think Mueller would be quite as good outside of Fenway and that supporting cast. Durazo wouldn't be a great fit, as he's injury prone and doesn't exactly fit in well with Ozzieball. My plan would be to trade Contreras, Marte, and Sweeney for Hank Blalock, and then try and find a 5th starter for about 4 or 5 million. I don't think Duque has ANY trade value.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 07:48 AM) Upgrades need to be made at 3B, DH and maybe SS/CF/LF. And with the increase in payroll (5-10M at least), I think he'll do that. I can't see how KW can get fired, while the likes of Dave Dombroski and Dave Littlefield continue to get off scot free. Trust me, I think it would be a travesty if KW got fired, but Ozzie kept his job. I also think that if you see the Sox miss out on the playoffs, you're not going to see the increase in payroll. I think it's safe to say if the Sox miss the playoffs, PK will be gone, and Everett and Frank will not be brought back. Personally, I feel like our offense needs a superstar.

DBAHO....I'm not saying I disagree with you, but if this team doesn't make the playoffs, either KW or Ozzie won't be back. Since Ozzie got the extension, I think KW will get fired, and Steve Stone would be the new GM. Whoever the GM is, I just hope they know that they won't win games because of Ozzieball. Rather, the players are what make Ozzieball work. By that, I mean the best the hitters, the better the offense. What the Sox have is a lack of tough outs in the order.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 07:29 AM) I don't think there will be changes made even if we miss the playoffs. If anyone's going to held accountable, my guess is a Greg Walker or Harold Baines. Remember it's not like KW didn't try at the deadline, and you saw what Florida gave up for Ron Villone (and you know how well that's gone for them). You and I might realize that, but 95 pct of the Sox fan base is going to call for the head of KW or Ozzie. Here's a big worry I have with Ozzie: he was awful handling his pitchers last season. He continues to do the same s*** this season, and still doesn't seem to actually learn from his mistakes during the season. Every Sox fan in the world knew that Dye can't bunt. You know that I have been down on this team all season, even when they were 15 games up. One of the main reasons was because I had absolutely no faith that Ozzie could help us win close games down the stretch. He has 13 games to earn his job, IMO.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 07:25 AM) Motivation isn't the problem, it's the decision making. I'm probably one of the people who defends Ozzie on here, but my argument to that would be that he was good enough to get the team to a 15 game lead in the 1st place. Ozzie isn't going anywhere so we just have to hope handling the pen etc. is a learning experience for him, and he can become much better at it in the future. So KW will be the scapegoat? If the worse case scenario occurs, you know there will have to be changes made.

Here's my question for anyone that doesn't want Ozzie fired if the Sox miss the playoffs: What good is he as a manager if he can't motivate his team enough to hold on to a 15 game lead with 2 months left in the season? Since he's obviously a poor strategical manager, he's a liability as a manager if he can't prove an ability to keep his team focused.