fathom

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) I really don't think that's the case at all... Jim, wouldn't you say so? Of course, if there's a guy who can throw 99 but can't locate it, and there's a guy who can throw 91-93 who can locate it, they'll go with the latter. But I don't see much of a problem with that. Again, they went with a lot of 'stuff' guys last year -- Whistler and Gonzalez come to mind immediately. Those guys with 91 mph have a lot lower ceiling than the guys with the overall great stuff. It's up to the minor league developers to get the best out of the player's talent. Please don't tell me that you think our minor league people do a good job at developing players?

Getting McCarthy out of the game was our best chance at winning. Good job by Viz there. Cotts is going to have to pitch 2 innings tonight likely.

QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:39 AM) Verlander was 2nd overall No, I know that, but that's the type of "great" stuff I was talking about. Not someone with a 91 mph and a good curve.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:36 AM) some of you people here are very immature and have very little baseball knowledge I believe it's my baseball knowledge that leads me to believe we should trade McCarthy while he still has a lot of value. He wasn't an extremely highly rated prospect last season, and after his quality spring training, his stock went sky-high. Someone with McCarthy's stuff is usually not rated as highly as he has been. In the right trade, you can turn McCarthy into a real difference maker.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:33 AM) As for Honel, his knucklecurve was wicked, but in terms of his fastball, I don't remember it being much faster than an El Duque fastball. Yep, that's exactly what I thought of when I saw Honel pitch before. McCarthy actually reminds me of what I thought Honel would have looked like in the majors with his stuff.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:34 AM) I realize his fastball was just average, but all I heard was rave reviews on his knucklecurve. And I'd also heard about the mentality problems, sort of a cockiness, overconfidence? I'm just saying, there's complaining, and then there's b****ing just to b****. He says he doesn't like that the Sox don't take enough guys with good 'stuff', yet they've drafted Gio and Honel? Then he calls McCarthy, a 17th round pick of a couple of years ago (right?), a bust? I'm sorry, that's just b****ing just to b****, IMO. Keep believing what you want in terms of my motives. I have some very quality sources that add to my baseball insight, and I don't jump on and off bandwagons like many people on this board. As of now, McCarthy is a bust. Honel wasn't considered someone with great stuff when we drafted him. A guy with great stuff, for example, is someone like Verlander.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:33 AM) That was merciful. BMAC needs to be on his way to Charlotte before this game is over. More like Birmingham.

Well, that's the last I hope we see of McCarthy until the 2007 season. What an absolute f***ing disaster.

Dear lord, this is f***ing pathetic.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:30 AM) This. Guy. Sucks. Get him out, he's not ready. (And I didn't say he will always suck, but he sure as hell sucks now) That's the way we all feel. When we say he's a bust, we don't mean for the long-term. But for right now, he sucks, plain and simple.

McCarthy should be pulled immediately. You let Tampa tie this game up, and they have all the momentum in this game.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:28 AM) GMAFB. Talk to Jason, he's seen him. He had a filthy knucklecurve before his injury. Average my ass... His curve was good, but his fastball was nowhere near above average. Remember, McCarthy was also supposed to have a lights-out curveball. I've seen Honel pitch quite a few times in high school, and never was overly impressed.

How long before we're allowed to say McCarthy has been a bust so far?

I just hope Ozzie doesn't make the same mistake he made in McCarthy's start against the Royals, and leave Brandon in too long in order to try and get the win. If McCarthy gets in trouble again, you have to pull the kid. He's not shown much ability to get out of jams, etc.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:24 AM) Fine. Hindsight is 20/20. You couldn't predict the Honel injury, no one could. You complained about the Sox not taking guys with good stuff. Honel had awesome stuff before his injury. So, what's your complaint? About the pick, or about them not taking guys with good stuff? Honel had great stuff? He has a pretty average fastball (91 mph) and a curve. Reminds me of a certain pitcher we have on the mound.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:24 AM) Josh Fields is in what his 1st full season of minor league ball, if you've read the minor league reports you would have seen he's been turning it around in the last month. His average has gone up 30 points, plus he's hitting in a pitcher's park. I just know what I've been told by different baseball scouts, and I haven't heard one positive report about Fields.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) I sure hope Freddy is ready to step up and save the bullpen tomorrow because I doubt McCarthy's going 6 innings tonight. Our best chance of winning is getting Cotts, Cliff, and Dustin in this game as soon as possible.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:22 AM) WTF!?! I walk out to watch fireworks to a 6-1 ballgame and come in 10 minues later and it 6-4. No lead is safe when McCarthy is on the mound.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:19 AM) Well, I think it's pretty ridiculous of you to criticize the Sox drafting tecniques. McCarthy was what, a 17th round pick? The fact that he's in our rotation already should be a compliment to Dave Wilder and co. Gio Gonzalez last year, Kris Honel a couple of years ago... I don't know what you're complaining about. Finding a college pitcher in spots #15-#20 with dynomite stuff is pretty tough to do. He's usually gone well before then... Every team finds some gems in the mid to late rounds of the draft. There's no doubt in my mind that the Sox have had some awful high draft picks lately. Honel has been a bust, plain and simple. Fields hasn't shown the type of offensive skills that Sox officials had hoped he would, and Royce Ring was a poor selection (other guys available that should have been taken).

As Milkman said earlier, seems like everyone is trying to hit homers now. If we lost this game (I know, a long way to go), it would be an extremely disappointing loss.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:17 AM) Cotts is having a monster season Cotts wasn't a prospect of ours. As I'm sure you know, the A's gave him us in the closer trade.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:15 AM) He is not locating well, nor is he using the changeup. He's throwing whatever Pierzynski is calling and hasn't shaken him off once. The location on his fastball is not good and the breaking ball location is worse. He is just a young green kid, our expectations are too high but here's the deal, this is the big leagues and this is a pennant race. He needs to settle in this next inning and try to give the team 6 innings and a lead. Even still, to my untrained eye he is not the answer for 2005. I agree with you. We're not in the position to have a guy gain experience through tough times right now. My biggest complaint with McCarthy is that he doesn't seem to fool hitters at all. His curveball doesn't seem to make hitters swing and miss.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:15 AM) So, who should we have taken at #15? Don't say Carrillo, either... No, definitely not Carrillo. I think the Broadway selection was better than either of the local pitchers, but it doesn't mean I think any of the 3 will pan out. None of them have particularly good stuff.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) BTW, Detroit's top prospect Justin Verlander came up and threw five and a third innings giving up four runs. So, it's not just our top prospects coming up and getting hit around. That was also his MLB debut against a great Indians hitting team right now. McCarthy has now struggled against KC and TB.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 02:12 AM) Why can't any of our prospects give us some consistent solid efforts?? Because we don't seem to draft guys with good stuff. For some reason, we're content with drafting guys who only have two pitches, and can't throw over 91 mph. That's my biggest concern with Broadway.