CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Javelina's win the AFL league championship !

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 08:31 PM) No, we wouldn't "have" that, they wouldn't move Alexei again for Omar Vizquel age 43. Why has this signing been so polarizing again? We have an excellent defensive infielder who can play 3 positions, which was a BIG problem last year. Everything is polarizing around here. You know the old saying., "Opinions are like a--holes, every ones got one."

Sox means Socks ? O man all these years I thought it meant Soaks.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 08:17 PM) Here's an interesting question: Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar? Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss. Wouldn't it have been smarter than acquiring Teahen to start at third?? Thus moving Beckham to second and keeping Lexi at ss? Then we'd have Getz and Fields to trade to somebody else for a middle relief candidate or whatever. I am one fan who would rather have a new veteran ss if it means keeping Gordon at third and moving Lexi back to second. Not really. At this point in his career Omar is not a full time player any more. For some reason many people think Alexei was a better 2nd baseman than he was a SS. Myself, I don't see that and I think the defensive metrics everyone likes to use say the same thing. Alexei is better at SS. I saw plenty of improvement in Beckham at 3rd but his future is as a 2nd baseman . He only played third out of necessity last year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 07:49 PM) They aren't going to lift Alexei in the late innings or Beckham. Maybe Teahan. What I'm concerned about is the once or twice a week starts Vizquel gets. Want to bet he leads off occassionally? I won't bet that he'll lead off occasionally because you never know with Ozzie. But I will bet that he will be a late inning defensive replacement at all 3 infield positions. He played 3rd last year for the Rangers when Michael Young got injured and subbed for Kinsler when he got hurt also. He only had 177 at bats the whole year and when he got regular playing time his avg. was right around .300 . He even managed 2 triples in the limited time he got. Not bad for a geezer. The dude can still run unlike Dye. There was speculation he could end up on the Phillies , Indians or Red Sox so it's not like the Sox are getting someone that no one else was interested in. He won't get very many starts unless someone is injured.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 07:31 PM) Alexei Ramirez is the White Sox SS. Vizquel will see very little time there and he is 43 years old. You think Jermaine Dye is old. This guy is 7 years older than him. And the game has changed. You can't get away with a guy who hit like Belanger anymore. At least in the AL. All the metrics say Vizquel is still a damn good fielder so if the Sox aren't going to have a good defensive infield they better have at least one late inning replacement who can field. Baseball has changed of course but defense should still be a priority in the late innings when you need to protect a one run lead.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) Wow, this makes no sense... and even less sense if we plan on replacing Nix with Vizquel. I like Vizquel, but the guy can't hit anything and he should have retired a while ago. The whole argument that he will be a teacher for Alexei is garbage as well, we have two former middle infielders who both know how to speak the same language as Ramirez. If the manager and bench coach can't get through to Alexei, as well as every other coach on the staff, why in the hell would an over the hill 43 year old magically solve all of Alexei's problems? I do not see how in any way Vizquel makes this team any better except unless we signed him to be a rover MI coach. It makes plenty of sense if you value defense. The position of SS has really changed from what it used to be. Even a Manager like Earl Weaver who loved the 3-run homer and was not much of a believer in "small ball" saw a need for someone like Mark Belanger who makes Omar Vizquel look like Albert Pujols. Belanger was a slick fielding no hit ( and seriously no hit to the tune of a lifetime BA/OBP/SLG/OPS of .228/.300/.280/.580 ) SS who managed to play 18 years in the majors for some very very good Baltimore teams in the late 60's and 70's. You can bet your arse that the vaunted Oriole starters of that time like Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, and Pat Dobson loved having him out there every day. A few years Belanger even got some MVP votes probably from Baltimore writers. Good defense makes a helluva difference when you've got golden arms out there pitching for you. The current infield of the Sox is going to be torture to our staff.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 09:15 AM) Or maybe KW has a trade in place where either NIx or Alexei are on their way out. Send Nix to the Padres. Hell Alexei too if we get Gonzales in return.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) For those relatively new to the site, this is one of the gems that started right here on Soxtalk, and while it wasn't proven true early on, it sure came back around later on in the case of Clemens. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...10304/index.htm Since Clemens was later busted for steroids it made me wonder if the earlier story that originated here on Soxtalk was part of a cover up by MLB since it was all denied at that time.

Disco Demolition. I was there . Went to a game with dad and brothers , dad buys a program and sees himself and 2 of my brothers in an ad for family night promotion.

With one more big bat , not even as big as Adrian Gonzalez, the Sox should be in the thick of things. We're replacing the Contreras, Colon. Richard trio with Peavy and Garcia which in itself is a monster upgrade. I'd hate to see Beckham leading off. He's a run producer plain and simple and if we don't get another decent bat he better be in the middle of the order. Kotsay shouldn't be in the outfield any more at this point in his career . We really need a LH run producing above average defensive outfielder badly. Moving Konerko should be #1 priority even if it means paying a chunk of his salary.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:38 PM) If we can somehow obtain a 2nd quality SP prospect to combine with Hudson and Flowers, I think there is no doubt that we have the upper hand. SD has no future C in their system which makes Flowers the most attractive position player that either the Red Sox or us have. I just think we need that 2nd SP prospect which quite possibly could come from a Jenks trade. The Sox can offer any 4 or 5 of Hudson, Flowers, Jordan Danks ,Viciedo. Torres, Retherford, Morel ,Kyle Bellamy C. Santeliz (who's having a pretty good season in the Venezuelan Winter League) or any other Sox prospect they find projectable. I love following the Sox minor leaguers but they're just that, minor leaguers and Gonzalez adds so much to the offense and defense he just can't be passed up. But I might only do it if we can extend his contract at least another year.

QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) I read 2 mil . According to this it's $1 mill. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/c...-white-sox.html and I've read it's that amount in a few other places.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 12:47 AM) Most of them are not nearly as good as Jenks has been in his career. If you compare this year to previous years, his peripherals were much better across the board, except for his HR/9; it was up around 1.5 this year whereas he's been around 0.6-0.7 for his entire career, and he was at 0.3 in 07 and 0.4 in 08. His H/9 was a little high, but I imagine that has much more to do with the Sox poor defense than Jenks himself. If Jenks allows 4 fewer solo home runs, his ERA is down to 3.03. Jenks will tendered a contract, and if he is traded it's on the basis of his career, his improvement in his peripheral categories this season, and his homer total being an outlier. All of the above gives Jenks a bit of trade value, though I don't believe now is the time to deal him. The Sox control him through 2011 unless I'm for some reason mistaken, and next season is the only time I think he could really be considered to be a non-tender candidate, and that is only if he gets injured or has a terrible season. He's due for a big arbitration raise this year perhaps as high as $7.5 mill. . That pretty much means if anyone is willing to take on his salary we won't get jack back for him. I hope I'm wrong.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 8, 2009 -> 04:22 PM) At the end of the day, the Sox traded a bust of a prospect, a solid but limited 2Bman for ~$2 mill 3Bma who is a slight upgrade, moves Beckham over to a slightly more natural position at 2B, and opens up a 40-man roster spot. I don't understand why anybody is really making a big deal out of this either way. And even more so, if the Sox find any type of outfielder capable of starting - because Quentin can move to RF and it'll be an upgrade defensively, and if Rios moves to RF because the Sox got an even better defensive CFer, even better - or find a 3Bman, and they'll be fine. I know Williams said that Teahen is set to play 3B, but that probably just means he has his sights set on a certain player, and if he doesn't acquire said player, they'll look at other options. You know we are bored when a small trade like this gets almost 1000 posts. 3.575 + arb. = guessing $4.5 -$1mill from the Royals =$3.5 mill.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 8, 2009 -> 10:55 PM) There is a 0% chance that Bobby Jenks is non-tendered, barring some cataclysmic move on his part that makes his value absolutely nothing. If anything, he will be traded. Good relievers will command a lot of money, and even if Jenks is inconsistent and there are concerns with his weight, he's still good and will have value. JJ Putz was a huge part of the 3-way trade between the Mariners, Indians, and Mets last year, and he was coming off a very mediocre season with the Mariners. Maybe he doesn't have to do anything or maybe he already did. He might be traded but we wouldn't get much for him. His salary is too high and relievers will be all over the free agent market. Supply and demand. Even some of our minor leaguer's and certainly Hudson will be considered. It will be interesting to see if he's not traded before December 12th.

Should be a glut of relievers on the free agent market and $7-7.5 mil for Jenks through arbitration is steep so non-tendering him is a possibility. So everybody what's coming ?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) And its horrible. Seriously, why doesn't Dish carry it? To keep costs for the subscribers down I would assume . Last year on DirecTV. I bought the NHL Center Ice package to watch the Blackhawks. Occasionally there was a Hawks game on Versus which DirecTV also carried . Then Comcast which owns Versus jacked up the cost for DirecTV so DTV dropped Versus. Now that the Hawks are somewhat the darlings of the NHL Versus carries a lot more Hawks games this year which I now can't see even with the NHL package I bought again ,which is super aggravating since I'm paying the same price . So far this year I've missed 3/4 Hawks games which Versus has 1st rights to.

QUOTE (SockMe @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) do u have to pay for the MLB network? On DirecTV its part of my regular package right by the NHL, NFL , NBA , golf and tennis channels .

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) "Generally and historically teams do not want their best players at 2nd base.' You mean like the 2008 AL MVP Pedroia?! Get a clue. Since you quoted me I did say historically and you give me one example ? Because you can name Pedroia you take that tone ? I myself gave 3 examples with Sandberg, Morgan and Utley . Maybe you should do some research on what kind of numbers usually qualify a 2nd baseman for the Hall of Fame and you'll see they are not as good as players from most other positions. I stand by my statement that generally and historically teams do not want their BEST players at 2nd base. That does not mean their aren't exceptions to the rule in the 100+ years of baseball history . Rogers Hornsby was another one if you ever heard of him. It's also why when you hear the argument that Beckham should be playing 2nd base it's because his bat is more valuable at a position that usually doesn't have that many good bats playing it. Again an example of the best players not being at 2nd base most of the time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 08:51 AM) As long as Ramirez is paying attention, he's pretty good. If Frank Thomas was the White Sox first baseman in 2009, Alexei would have had 40 errors. One article I read about the SS/2B debate with Beckham is the injury factor. It is easier to get hurt as a 2B especially on DPs. I brought that up in post #9 maybe you didn't see it.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 08:35 AM) This is a lot of handwringing over nothing. Teams often move their best prospects/athletes around to fill needs and get their bat in the lineup (Pujols, Miggy Cabrera, etc). The White Sox are making a savvy move because it's easier to get an average to above-average bat to fill in at 3B than it is at 2B. I expect Beckham to be a better defensive second baseman than Getz was and I expect him to take the transition in stride. He's not some fragile hot-house flower. I agree I think Beckham can handle it also, but if we see a sophomore slump or he's get injured at 2nd base there would be plenty of speculation on the negative impact of another position change.

QUOTE (RibbieRubarb @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 08:31 AM) I fail to read where he is "not that thrilled"... That seems more of your opinion and interpetation that Gordan actual thoughts. I can't seem to find the position I've played my whole career," "When the offseason started, I was kind of locked into thinking I would play third," . "It seems like the weight was off me coming into the offseason knowing I had a full year at third base under my belt. So, now I kind of have to re-do learning how to play a new position. " I guess part of me was thinking at least I wouldn't I have to figure out something new because I felt comfortable at third. "Ultimately, it's not my decision," "It's hard for me because it's another new position " "I'm not sure the politics involved in it, and it's not for me to say anything about it. OK I took all the positive things out now and left in the somewhat perplexing or negative ones. According to the quotes it's basically hard on him, he has to figure out something new or re-do learning a new position, he'd rather be a SS and he sees politics involved in it. I don't think I'm out of line nor the only one who see's these quotes as a mixed bag of saying the all right things along with his personal feelings about it mixed in.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 07:41 AM) Don't like to hear Beckham even mentioning something about the "politics involved with it". I can't wait for these veterans to leave, as there's no doubt the clubhouse will be better off for it. Most of them are already gone with the exceptions of the old core being Kornerko , AJ ,and Buerhle.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 7, 2009 -> 06:03 AM) Reason I am not worried about Beckham at 2b He's played 2nd in 2007 in the Cape Cod league and in 2008 in the AFL and not at all in the majors. And another point I'd like to make is we all have heard the arguments that Beckham at 2nd would put him among baseball elite 2nd baseman. While this is true you have to examine why it's that way. Generally and historically teams do not want their best players at 2nd base. It's a very high contact/risk position. The Sox have already lost much of their power from last year and with Konerko at the top of the list to provide any kind of major salary relief we could lose even more. Imagine the outcry if, God forbid, we lose Beckham to an injury due to a collision at 2nd base. That's why is so rare to have guys like Utley , Sandberg and Morgan at a position like 2nd base. At this point in time the hitting , infield defense , bullpen, one outfield position, and DH all look pretty weak. That's a ton of holes to fill with hardly any salary left to fill them. I'd be much happier knowing the hitting will be weak if the infield and outfield defense was good to support the starting pitching. That way the only thing left to improve would be the bullpen.