CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I was just about to post this since it was also mentioned in MLBtraderumors today. Good news. Thread title change time ?

You could find dozens of posts from plenty of people who said if he isn't going to play every day then send him down. It was pretty apparent he wasn't going to play every day because that's what was happening before his recent stretch. There was one highly respected poster who said he has been our worst hitter against RHP by far and that his solution to play him every day was counter-intuitive . That seems like a lot of people to me. I wish it was possible to make people understand that the way he's been handled has been good for his development. If you play him every day maybe he feels the pressure to do well. By sitting him you are managing the person, not the top prospect with the expectation of greatness on his shoulders. It's the human factor. Let him know he doesn't have to be great right away , slow the game down, observe, learn. Call it fatherly or grandfatherly but it's more about learning at a slower pace ,encouraging him, letting him know they believe in him and that sitting him isn't a punishment just a way to observe to learn along with participate to learn. That's all I ever wanted.

Yes I have written so much that I am constantly surprised that I still have people acting like I said I wanted him getting only weak side platoon AB's. Even now you say I have written more words then Hemingway about how "Vaughn wasn't the right guy for this team " yet you did not you quote one of my many posts on Vaughn to reach that conclusion. Truly odd that when I ask people to do that so I can have something to response to that is accurate they don't do it . I don't like being known as the guy who hates Vaughn because that was never true. All I ever thought was that like any other player who was struggling , that he should be benched once in a while against RHP instead of playing every day. I actually thought people were expecting too much from him with so little minor league experience. I think LaRussa has done a good job with matching up guys throughout the season with the many injuries. If we always listened to fans Leury, Lamb, Goodwin, Hamilton would all either have been DFA'd or never used. All I ever wanted was for Vaughn to get good matchups, a good balance between facing LHP and whatever RHP the coaching staff deemed fit for Vaughn to face.

https://ouresquina.com/2021/cuban-reunion-at-mlb-futures-game/

Not to mention but while in the rebuild they dumped international bonus pool money a couple of times too. Sox Machine Article from 11/1/2019 https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/11/01/white-sox-continue-shedding-international-money-while-rebuilding-for-some-reason/

Not sure what that means or even if I should care but sure I'll take the bait. Sox have played 89 games , Vaughn's played in 75 of them If I have replaced him in the lineup 12 times I've done very close to what the Sox have done ( 14 times not in a game). Even if you didn't literally mean 12 times you came pretty close to what's been actually happening. The most parroted voices on here said" if you don't play him every day send him down". I never understood that. Keep facing MLB pitching , sit down every once in a while against guys with nasty sliders, keep the confidence level high and hitting well against LHP, keep learning and observing , slowing things down, getting input from coaches and keep making adjustments. The good ones figure things out.

You don't need long term options for every position unless you are drafting it or paying big money for a guy like Bryce Harper you just feel lucky to get a short term guy to perform above average for a couple of years. The Sox have a good amount of long term options which is why I mentioned those guys. Lots of teams win consistently using short term guys and catchers who can't hit very well but call a good game , frame well and have good technique blocking pitches. Most trades you make are for short term guys as are the usual space the Sox operate from on Free Agency.

You are a bad manager when you have a bad team. You are also a bad manager when you have a good team but every lineup, every pitching change and every time you sit a superstar or a hot prospect is questioned. You are only a good manager... well never in today's day and age when everyone has a platform. Only in retrospect when you manage a long time and every day decisions are forgotten and your teams keep winning because of a talented front office acquiring talented players do you know you have a HOF manager. That's why the winningest teams in baseball history like the Yankees and Cardinals top the list of HOF managers.

Him doing well against crap RHP is what I would expect in a normal development. 1st step coming up from only A+ and a year at Schaumburg is struggle against pretty much any RHP. Step 2 : Start hitting the bad RHP with authority and cutting down the K's. Step 3: Develop into the Vaughn everyone hoped he could be . I think the Sox have handled him well this year.

Plenty of relievers out there who are going to be traded who are better than our bottom 3 or 4 guys but you know the Sox aren't going to trade for more than 2 relievers and maybe they just go with one. Just like before the season many were stoked about our young group of relievers in a short season But as is often the case relief pitchers and young pitchers are an unpredictable lot. There's really no way to know if a reliever who had good stats in the 1st half will continue to put up good stats in the 2nd half. When the Sox do trade for relief pitching I'd like to see them go after guys who have pitched in the tougher divisions in baseball and put up decent stats facing good teams. That shouldn't be too hard to figure out if the Sox put their analytics team to good use.

It's not asking too much at all

Exactly. Vaughn is maturing as a hitter and so is Engel as odd as that sounds for a 29 year old. Slowly but surely he has figured out what works best for him. Just need another guy in the lineup every day who consistently hits HR's from the left side and some BP pieces. I'll take a 3 run bomb over just about any other hit.

We are a diverse group of individuals with different expectations , wants ,needs and knowledge. Can't please everyone all the time. Trying to group us all as "this board " is folly good sir.

Maybe they just watched him in practice turning the DP and decided it wasn't worth it or having him nimbly perform ballet to avoid contact wasn't a good idea.

Is this just you trying the reverse jinx. The guys who have been saying that and giving positive emojis for statements like this have gone down in flames recently.

At the moment not very highly apparently according to Longenhagen and the bulk of them are still in the low minors. Our #6 prospect Adolfo has little value because of injuries and the short period of time the Sox have to make a decision on him. I don't know if Future Sox has made an updated evaluation of our top prospects since February and if they have it isn't pinned on the Future Sox section of Soxtalk nor do I see it on the Future Sox website . I would trust Future Sox more on the ranking than MLB.com who do have an updated list that includes Rutherford and Luis Gonzales but not Burger who I would personally rank at #1. Cespedes has a chance to be a fast riser but most of the pitchers except for Stievers will have a long climb to reach the majors or become ranked in the top 100. Pitcher Norge Vera probably will be in the Future Sox Top 10 but hasn't even started his pro career yet. Most of the best position prospects are also in the low minors and not sure where they rank in the top 30 since I can't find that from Future Sox. Edit. The updated version of Future Sox list will come out after the trade deadline.

Why does the sky having to falling or be called panicking just because you want to win the World Series in a year you could win the World Series ? If we trade the few attractive trade chips we have from the bottom ranked farm system we will still be at the bottom . How many of them to you think are going to help the Sox in 2021-24 ? Most of the truly attractive pieces are in Kanny and some like Sheets and Burger are already here but certainly are tradable assets. Anyway I hope your optimism that Lynn and Rodon can be retained and your faith in Jerry is rewarded and I don't think if you are disappointed I will come back and say I told you so. Perhaps one of us will be man enough to remember our conversation and say "Hey you were right" but it might take till after the 2024 season to know it. I think the odds are on my side since winning a World Series is always a long shot anyway no matter what you do with JR in control. Maybe we both can be right and the Sox can sign just enough rentals without giving away the best of the limited amount of what you would call our best prospects this year and still make the World Series.

And Gallo shouldn't even be called a big ticket. 1.4 years of him but unfortunately even that seems like a big ticket to the Sox. Texas is just going to screw themselves with him like they did with Lynn.

Yeah I know I've heard the top 10 stuff before many times but somehow it's always tied into attendance which is what I meant when I said the Sox operate on a year to year basis. But the results with producing consistent winning teams shouldn't always be tied to attendance but it seems to still be that way. If the fans and Covid and the impending strike are going to always give JR an out for not spending money then you are just carrying water for him by believing the extended run stuff. He will always have an excuse to deal with middle tier free agents who flop just as much as they succeed and tems that lose more than they win. I suppose next you will be telling me the Sox had some great years in the 90's that didn't produce World Series winners either when the best chance at winning in the 90's was sabotaged by Jerry in 94. You can't run a team financially on a year to year basis based on fan attendance and then tell me to believe you when you talk about sustained winning especially when you sabotage the farm consistently over the years.

Pitching wins championships. You can get by having a defense 1st catcher and strong positions players at most of the positions with a good balance of left handers and right handers. Usually the best pitchers cost a lot of money. The Sox got 2 of the best for as cheap as possible but only for 1 year for each of them. Jon Lester, Verlander, David Price, Kershaw, Scherzer, Strasburg all cost a lot for World Series winning teams. Pitching will always be the key to winning year after year. The Sox already have many very good positions players when they are healthy and the best is yet to come from Vaughn, Eloy, Madrigal and Robert .

I'd rather watch this team make a serious run at the World Series this year than count on Jerry to reload the starting pitching staff or count on 2 of Giolito,Cease, Kopech or Keuchel to pitch as great as Rodon and Lynn have this year.

Caused Jerry to go cheap ? When hasn't he been cheap ? What you fully expect and what will happen could be 2 very separate things. I guess the difference between us is I don't see trading prospects from a bottom ranked farm team to supplement a very strong contender as going all in . It's just doing what needs to be done like all teams who are serious about winning do.

The main problem as far as I see it is that the Sox still operate on a year by year basis and will not do what the other rebuild World Series winning teams like the Astro's and Cubs did to win the World Series. Nor will they trade for big contracts or spend like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros or Cubs did. They also did not focus on the farm system right at the beginning of the rebuild like they should have and the result is in a barren farm right now. The Cubs signed Lester and Heyward to big contracts and then traded for Chapman and then Quintana to try to extend their window. The Astro's traded for Verlander on August 31th to barely make him eligible for the playoffs by the Sept. 1st deadline. I don't think there is an August 31th date any more for trades is there ? The Astro's after winning the World Series traded for Gerrit Cole and then Zack Greineke. Somehow Houston still has a system with more talent than the Sox. Oakland and Tampa Bay make the playoffs a lot , haven't won a World Series but also still maintain good farm systems. Boston signed David Price to a huge contract and also signed JD Martinez to a big contract. The Dodgers spend money everywhere so not much sense talking about them. The point is it wasn't me who chose to go all in this year it was the Sox when they traded for Lance Lynn since they can't afford trading or signing anyone with a big contract. The farm system is now a wasteland and will take years to build it up again. They also got extremely lucky with Rodon. They got to this point without really spending much. The Sox talk about sustaining success but they will not get as lucky as they have with Lynn and Rodon every year when they need to fill holes. I don't think it's asking that much to get a few rentals and some relief pitching by parting with a few pieces from the farm and a little bit of salary for less than half a year . I have no idea if they are interested in Marte, Schwarber or Gallo but they should be. I wouldn't even call Gallo a controllable guy . He's 1.4 years worth of a player. Texas can ask for the moon for him , like they did for Lynn but eventually all they are doing is lessening the cost for him or risking an injury the longer they keep him. The only thing that will extend the Sox window is finding a way to actually spend money on pitching like all the other World Series teams have done but the Sox appear to be incapable of doing that. I guess we will see eventually with Rodon , Lynn and Giolito. I don't see what difference it makes whether the Sox are the worst farm system or the 2nd or 3rd worst.