CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Depends...

The good thing about what I said is no one knows what i was thinking unless you are Rocket. But for the record I agree.

I never purely hate too many moves unless guys are old and obviously declining. Adam LaRoche, Shields, Encarnacion I was against all those moves but so were a lot of people here. I try to see it from what is going through the Sox minds. I think they are keeping OBP in mind for a lineup that should still probably hit a ton of HR's. OBP guys keep the line moving ,which helps sustain rallies. It gives the Sox 3 RF options in Engle, Leury,Eaton, in case Leury plays the infield you still have a L/R thing to work with in RF and as a safe guard for more Eaton injuries. He did have his most injury free seasons here so if there's any magic in that I'd be happy to see it again. I can't be too upset . The Sox made 2 moves and it's early in the off season and they've done more than most teams . If people wanted an indication that they would spend this off season ,it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of that yet, but it's better than a few days ago with a long way to go. If they snag Hendriks I would hate to think he would be our highest AAV acquisition but if its a move that comes quickly things would be looking up.

I am Groot

I don't like rentals in general which is why I wanted him for 2 playoff seasons but he fits the mold of being a pretty good pitcher and giving the other guys time to build up innings so I really don't mind some quality stop gap guys in the rotation. In the long run it saves a boatload of money to get Kopech, Crochet and Cease in there.

I don't buy any of that stuff about Katz or an extension. Pure speculation. Katz couldn't name every pitcher on the staff and maybe Dunning's sample size wasn't big enough or he didn't have video on him yet. He would have to know a trade was absolutely going to happen and proposed trades fall apart all the time. Katz has to go under the assumption that he's going to work with everyone on the staff until told otherwise.

There are probably like 50 peripherals right now in use. You would have to use a few of them to convince me. I don't think you can find too many bad things from his 2020 performance. He only uses his 2 best pitches now both that get hitters to beat the ball into the ground and induce weak contact. Why worry about it being a mirage. We can't have good things ? Same stuff was said about Q "smoke and mirrors", McCann "he is what he 's always been" !

Hey Brother. Thanks . I think that was before the trade deadline 2020 because I wanted him for last years stretch drive too. 2 playoffs is better than 1 but apparently TX wouldn't have gone for it then.

Really ? lol I'm busy and got a late start on this thread and i like to read everything . I better go check that out. thanks.

The object is to win the World Series. It isn't about winning the trade or value . As someone noted, Baseballtradevalues.com had us winning in value. So it's their expertise against everyone here. We can argue all day about how we all see Dunning faring in the future or how Lynn fairs in the near future. I honestly hope Dunning becomes a great pitcher. Wishing him to pitch poorly in order to enhance someones ability to say I told you so ,sucks. I'm geared up for World Series this year but winning the WS takes a team. We are 1 good pitcher closer, who was needed badly to win in 2021and we buy time for Kopech , Crochet, Cease and even Lopez to pitch innings , get stronger, work with a new pitching coach, and contribute beyond 2021.

What do you think that would cost for 2020 and beyond ? Not going to get them all on 1 yr. deals .

Wait what made you right? Did I miss some invisible seasons when Dunning became Bieber ?

Now just get Bauer and voila!, it's 4 of the top 7 ! I'd stack that up against anyone even with Leury and Engel sharing RF and no relief pitcher added. But 1 more relief pitcher would be good too.

Get Bauer and I don't get care if we get any RF or any more relief pitchers. I'll take our top 4 starting pitchers 4 in the playoffs and it doesn't really add all that much to last years payroll. Maybe in the neighborhood of $20M more. Just guessing with vague numbers of how much is off payroll from those no longer on the team and adding Lynn and Bauers approx. salary. And yea I'm still hoping

He's as bad in the OF as Eloy. Ok for DH and limited OF duty I guess if he can be had for $5M or less. But no way is he in the OF in the playoffs and until the DH in the NL thing is settled ,that limits his market especially if it ends up being no DH in the World Series.

Brooks Baseball might have that stuff under scatter charts . I'm no expert on everything they have to offer but u can check it out.

if he threw a lot of hangers they weren't hit well judging by his all stats both old school and new school . I think he's severely under rated because he doesn't K guys enough. From Brooks Baseball : His cutter is a real worm killer that generates an extreme number of groundballs compared to other pitchers' cutters, generates a high number of swings & misses compared to other pitchers' cutters, has slightly above average velo, has some natural sink and has strong cutting action. His fourseam fastball is a real worm killer that generates an extreme number of ground balls compared to other pitchers' fourseamers, has much less armside movement than typical and has slightly above average velo. Looks like the 4 seamer is the pitch that would be less trouble to righties since there's less arm side movement. I suppose one could track which pitches ended up in the middle of the zone more often. Looks like he used his 4 seamer 10% more and his cutter 10% less in 2020 compared to 2019 and his WHIP and ERA and FIP all showed better results but could've regressed in a longer season but we have to take what we got. BAA the 4 seem to righties was .200 in 2020 , .261in 2019 . BAA on the cutter was .222 in 2020 , .174 in 2019. Slugging against righties: .200 in 2020 , .261 in 2019 against the 4 seam. .333 in 2020 and .316 against the cutter in 2019 in 2020 Linedrives on BIP looks like it was the fastball and not the cutters to RHH that generated the much high linedrives . I think the number used there is a percentage and it says 50 so that seems high but on the cutter it was 27.7. There's more to look at there but I think this is enough. 50 was the highest he's ever been in his career but no one hit him really hard. Just one more. Flyballs on balls in play in 2020 looks like it's 0 % on the 4seamer Against RHH so those line drives weren't being lifted and 15.15 on the cutter.

Really why not ? He's a 2 pitch pitcher now using his best 2 pitches with great movement and has been one of the few consistent relief pitchers around. He's not sexy but his 2020 stats were extremely good. He was among the 3 relievers nominated for Mariano Rivera AL Reliever of the Year which Hendriks won. I wouldn't want him either at $14M but many seem to think he'll go for less than what the Sox paid him last year. Not sure if that will come to pass. Those 2 pitches have above average movement and he induces a lot of weak contact. A good cutter is an awesome pitch. It got Rivera to the Hall of Fame.

So those 9 figure contract offers to Wheeler and Machado were imaginary ?

You beat me to it. I was thinking that the whole time but just catching up to this thread now.

Ahh now I see I wasn't the only one thinking this . I just came up with a more specific way to handle it. I think my numbers on what's owed came up differently. Maybe I should do the math on here and see if anyone can verify my numbers ?

Haven't read the whole thread yet, it grew pretty fast. Here's my deal to the Phils. If I did the math correctly Harper has $274M left on his contract and Wheeler has 96.5 =$370.5M Have them pay off $78M which equals slightly less than the amount the Sox wanted to pay Machado. So we get Harper and Wheeler for the cost of Machado. Have Boston pay off the 1st 3 years of Harpers contract which is the $78M. The back end of that contract is cheaper and essentially he wouldn't be paid for the 1st 3 years (21,22,23 )and the Sox would pay Wheeler's full salary . Keuchel's contract is over after 2023 which would free up $20M from the 2022 payroll. Giolito is also a free agent after 2023 which will subtract whatever Giolito gets in his last year of arbitration unless of course he is extended. By this time some young pitchers of the Sox should be ready to take Keuchel's and Giolito's spots or they get traded off if young pitchers have really advanced to replenish the farm. If need be, if they develop quickly, Keuchel, if he has any value left can be traded earlier. Of course I haven't figured out the whole payroll structure in those years but I am trying to see ways to minimize the impact of those 2 combined salaries. The really hard part is just what do you give up for still taking on $292M, basically digging the Phillies out of a huge hole. Do you really have to give up anyone ? Has anyone ever traded for that much salary before ? Is there a precedent ? It sort of reminds me of the Dodgers getting David Price and the one year of Betts. Boston ate half of Price's salary ($48M) and the Dodgers paid Betts salary ($27M)for a year and Gave up Verdugo (Boston) and Maeda (Twins) in that 3 way with the Twins while the Twins gave up Gaterol to the Red Sox. So the Dodgers took only $75M off Bostons hands while giving up a prospect and a 4th starter who pitched his ass off for the Twins. I have no clue what you give up for taking on $292M. A guy in the DSL just so you can say it was a trade ?

Was it difficult to write that while licking your wife's toes ?

That's exactly how I see it. Obviously being a very good pitcher gave Wheeler the choice of where he wanted to go but as a professional in any sport you have to realize "have gun will travel". If making the decision of location over money makes sense, then you would think he would have a no trade clause.

Locks unless some are traded.