CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Exactly And plenty of people here had reservations in the off season adding Brantley because of his age catching up to him in the OF .Vaughn is 23.

Hard to think it isn't coming very soon.

Oh good 98 that tells me something about him. Basically I'm looking at his walks good to see he didnt give up any . 1 run in 1.1 innings . At least the ball was in the zone. Probably not where he wanted it in the zone but baby steps are good.

Yes there is always legitimate discussion to be had. That's hard on a message board because most people stick to 2 sentence posts. Things like sabremetric fielding stats are quite tricky and you need advanced knowledge to use them. I will freely admit that is not my forte. But I will do the research necessary. I think OAA is quite simple. It divides the number of balls caught in the OF into 5 categories from 1 star catch through 5 star catches. 1 star is a catch everyone should make. 5 star catches are those catches only the best OF's make. 2 stars through 5 stars are catches where you have to run more than a few steps. It's range which is jump, route, burst (full speed where you cover the most ground). It shows your strength and weakness when going back ,coming in moving left or moving right) and against RHB and LHB. It basically shows that Vaughn has only had 15 opportunities to make 2-5 Star catches .So in other words we don't yet have enough data to get a full picture on how he fields when moving over greater distances. OAA shows he makes all the catches on 1 and 2 star catches and 80% on 3 Star and 0 % on 4 and 5 star catches . This show he has been competent, decent on catches that some guys will botch. It also shows he is highly unlikely to save you any runs in the 4 and 5 Star category where greater distances need to be covered. This isn't a huge deal in G Rate because it is not one of the more expansive OF's . It's more of a problem on the road in bigger outfields. But again still not enough data to get an accurate picture. I could even say that Vaughn may be just as good as Goodwin in LF even though Goodwin has him by leaps and bounds in speed . All data on Goodwin is also SSS based on year to year stats because he has primarily been used the least in LF and most in CF and RF and all in backup roles. Neither one of us can prove his point based on that . The whole debate started when Southside Hit Men used data to say Vaughn was the 2nd best OF left on the roster . I found that hard to believe so it piqued my interest and made me ask how the heck did he come to that conclusion ? I'm still not convinced he is using them correctly because it would take hours just to figure out everything that goes into Total Zone and I'm not sure he could explain it because maybe only the guy who developed it can explain it thoroughly. It's just curiosity not an obsession with Vaughn per se. He's a polarizing figure much like Madrigal.

Because as Rabbit said Peralta is basically Lamb only Lamb has more power. Why pay for Peralta when the Sox also need relief pitching. It's wasteful.

Yes excuse me I said Baseball Prospectus and believe it or not I looked at that Total Zone stat you used on Baseball Reference and saw the stat you used and spent quite a bit of time looking at it. Basically I saw you used one column of a whole range of the Total Zone stats, 21 different defensive stats columns.17 of those columns had either a negative, 0 or no data at all for Vaughn. This indicates he has not yet compiled the necessary stats to properly grade him or you ignored the others and just used the highest number you could find in the positive which was that 12 under the column Rtot/yr. Rtot/yr defined is: Total Zone The number of runs above or below average the fielder was worth per 1200 innings. This number combines the Rtz, Rdp, Rof, Rcatch into a total defensive contribution , In 3 of those 4 categories there were 2 with no data at all and 1 was a 0. Vaughn has 411 innings of total in his career yet the stat clearly states it needs 1200 inning to truly calculate these things yet it gave him a 12 anyway which you used. When I look under that same column and look at Vaughn's 2 game sample in RF I see 103. When I look up Dwight Evans Career in RF who is usually considered a great RF I see 77. Would you then think Vaughn is a better RF then Dwight Evans ? This is the danger in using small sample sizes against a larger sample size.

blah blah blah windbag. It's a baseball discussion based on defensive stats which are a highly debatable thing to discuss. You stepping in with nonsense is typical .You are acting like a petulant school child who was scolded because I admonished you on using lies and distortions when arguing about Vaughn's abilities vs. RHP. If I am obsessed with Vaughn what does that make you? The guy who lied and told everyone that I said send him down to the minors when I did not, then didn't bother to take it out of your post after you admitted I was right. The only thing you have left is to personally attack me. Apparently you are obsessed with spreading falsehoods and lies and jokes at my expense like a child among his schoolmates.

My post did say OAA is a range based stat that takes into account sprint speed,jump and read and also route . They use video evidence that shows the players route, distance covered, and the amount of time it took them to cover that distance. So you are greatly short changing it. I suppose I could look into your claims but I don't see how anyone can fault OAA . It's video proof based on plenty of things measured by the microsecond. I don't even know what fielding accuracy is. If you are trying to claim Vaughn is a better LF than Leury Garcia by a wide margin that is preposterous and also applies to Brian Goodwin. Vaughn will never ever have the speed or range or the JUMP. He's as close to the bottom in jump as you can get with a 10 rating which is based on 100 being the best. to be in positive territory in OAA . Speed is the number one factor in what makes an OF above average Sure it's not the end all be all if you can get a good jump and take good routes but Vaughn so far is terrible at getting jumps. So even if his routes are accurate he just can't cover enough ground to get to balls other players with more speed get to. This is rudimentary stuff. If he is so much better than them why can't he play CF like them ? Oh yeah he's slower than shit. Oh yeah he doesn't have the range based on speed and jump to play CF. Come on now. You put Goodwin or Leury in LF and they get to more catchable bloopers , balls down the line and in the gaps faster which will mean more outs and less bases taken by runners. Vaughn is only propped up by that Total Zone stuff that only Baseball Prospectus uses because he hasn't made any errors and G- Rate does not have an expansive OF. According to OAA Vaughn is basically equal to Michael Brantley in the OF this year . Brantley covers a little bit more ground and runs better routes and has a better burst to the ball while Vaughn is better at reaction time.

Peralta has 4 HR's in 272 PA Lamb has 5 HR's in 95 PA's . So I would suspect he'd be among the team leaders on the Sox had he got the same amount of AB's. Of course that's impossible given he wasn't brought here to be a starting OF but he's only played 3 games at DH and I would expect that to increase more against RHP and frankly that it hasn't already is a mystery . Not exactly a mystery since LaRussa has played Mercedes far too much during his slump which has reached epic proportions.

Peralta doesn't move the needle nearly enough. Sox need power and he doesn't have any power and he has another year left on his contract. Sox at this point are in equal need of another productive player who can hit both LHP and RHP . Ideally that would be Starling Marte who is a free agent next year or Eduardo Escobar. Marte might be cost prohibitive. Escobar probably easier to obtain since his salary is less but also provides power from both sides of the plate. I already mentioned Schwarber above, another free agent net year but with an option who the Nats might not feel like trading with that mutual option.

I would consider Schwarber a platoon bat but that's a top of the line platoon bat 17 of 18 HR's against RHP. High OBP against LHP but that can be useful if Moncada and Grandal also take their walks but then the Sox still need someone to get the big hit. Escobar has good stats against LHP so him behind the walk machines would help. He also has 11 HR's against RHP so that would also help. Get them both and the offense looks golden. Might be difficult to pry Schwarber away from the Nats ,however or to have enough prospect capital both both and also relief help. Eloy also hits RHP better but his career splits are almost equal except for accumulated stats which are always higher against RHP because you face them more. Robert hits LHP better but splits are not terrible against RHP either much like Escobar since he still hits HR's against them at a good clip.

I could see that by looking at his stats in previous minor league seasons. But as with any youngster changes and improvement do happen. Control has always hurt him and it wasn't too bad in Birmingham . Since the promotion to Charlotte it''s jumped up and bit him again in only 4.2 innings so if he wets the bed again in that regard and he's nibbling with AAA hitter then you're correct nothing special . I'll keep an eye on him. I suppose 31 yr. old Nik Turley could get a look.

Ok let's set the record straight on Goodwin's fielding. Defensive stats shouldn't be use in short doses. I don't know how many games or innings should be played to get an accurate read on these things but I wouldn't consider 2020 a year in which to judge him or this year. The last time he had a significant number of time to play the OF was 2019 with the Angels. Let's look at his Outs ABove Average in 2019 when he was 28 years old ( now 30 ) Outs Above Average 2019 ( this is a range based stats that considers speed and jumps and reads .) CF - 0 which means he was an average CF. RF - 1 slightly above average. LF - 4 above average. Is it possible he has lost a 1/2 step from then til now. Yes. I can't find his sprint speed from 2019 but from this year it's 68 which is pretty good if you compare it to Vaughn's 39. This was probably the only year in which he played enough to get an accurate read on his defense. I have no idea which stats or years Caulfield was talking about when he said he graded out as one of the worst CF's . As usual unless you get stats to back it up I'd ask for them. Lots of people like to use DRS (defensive runs saved) . I'm no expert but I like baseball savants OAA which uses Statcast video evidence.

Well hard to get a read on that as you well know . Just a handful of games there so far and defensive stats really mean nothing in the short term. I know your only asking for a read but that's in the eyes of the beholder for those who actually watch games. It's like Vaughn . He passes everyone's eye test because you've never seen him look terrible. He hasn't made any errors or booted any grounders out there so he is very competent which has sustained his defensive stats though it's really still too early to say he's good. The lack of speed means lack of range which will eventually lead to his Outs Above Average slowly getting worse, even if he gets good jumps( He doesn't) and reads which is also too early to say. But as of now this is what baseballsavant.com has on Vaughn. Sprint Speed 39 Outs Above Average 21 Jump 10 The lower the number the worse you are and Baseball Savant color codes these and blue is considered poor . His sprint speed is poor at 39 then 21 OAA and 10 Jump are pretty bad.

I don't know anything about this guy except he's been in the minors since 2013 . He might be a junkballer for all I know. Ofriedy Gomez 21.1 IP , 3 ER, 8 H, 25K 13 BB ERA 1.27 , .98 WHIP. Can't argue with the results so far. Absurdly low number of hits for the innings pitched but a bit too many walks, so that's why his WHIP is still very good. 25 yr . old RHP. 6'3 230lbs. He's only been in 10 games so far , Started 1 game and has 2 saves. Might not be a bad guy to be a long guy or a spot starter or for an inning here and there. OK looked again and saw 16.2 IP were in Birmingham and then he got promoted so probably hasn't pitched enough yet in Charlotte to get a read on him yet against AAA hitters. Too soon to promote him to the bigs.

I never rank guy because I don't see any of them play. But you should like this @caulfield12 I think Burger is our #1 prospect. He missed so much development time yet somehow after the 4/5 today he is hitting .295 w/ a .920 OPS . I know it's Charlotte but it's still damn impressive for a guy who missed so much time. His numbers are even better on the road. His numbers are decent against RHP but he is bashing LHP . 1.305 OPS. .886 @ home and .959 away. I don't know if that 4/5 is even in those stats yet. Looks like they might be because they got his HR total right.

Good job today and every day. 4 for 4 in wins and Burger 4/5 2b HR and 2 RBI and a .920 OPS ! He might have catapulted himself to our #1 prospect with his showing so far .

That's a legit question. The rebuild started in a non Covid year and Covid provided a built in or legit excuses not to spend capital without getting any in since fans were no longer footing their share of Sox expenses. To show this was a problem and the owners were getting squeezed they sent out releases saying how much they lost. What did it ultimately shake out too ? $100M per team in losses ? Then to offset those losses they cut out teams from the minor leagues, they fired employees . I mean you remember all this right ? Finally after all this ,starting 6/25 for the Sox, 100% capacity is being let into G-Rate Field. So we're not exactly talking about Situational Normal All Fucked UP (SNAFU) we're talking about Situation ABNORMAL all Fucked UP. Plus if you thought that was the case why were they so cheap in the off season ? Anyway you can drive yourself crazy thinking about this shit. With Jerry it's always will he or won't he ? The message I get most of the time is nope, he won't. The last 2 times we had to ask that, which was the off season and last season trade deadline. the answer was nope, he wont.

It's guys like you who make me wonder why I bother looking up all kinds of stats to show Escobar would become the 3rd or 4 th best hitter on the Sox both RH and LH and become our top HR hitter only to have a guy like you call him subpar. Yeah Starling Marte is a very good player and a rental like Escobar But we're dealing with Reinsdorf here. Escobar's prorated salary for 1/2 season will be somewhere around $3.8 M, Marte's will be $6.25 M. Then add in prospect cost+ salary for every deal you make for reliever's or anyone else they get maybe your lucky if the Sox spend another $10M + 3 or 4 prospects given up . If the Sox don't spend even that much you can be sure it was Reinsdorf insisting on teams eating money and those teams will go elsewhere. Then we will hear Hahn say the juice wasn't worth the squeeze but it will be for other teams.

Madrigal was a key cog in helping the Sox beat LHP and so was Mercedes, then Eloy and Robert. That's why I was probably the 1st one around here to say the Sox need help from both sides of the plate and why I always thought Escobar was perfect. Everyone focused on hey wait he hits LHP better than RHP well guess what the Sox aren't so hot against LHP anymore either without Madrigal and Mercedes in his uber slump . Madrigal had a .576 slugging against LHP Abreu is currently at . 559 Mercedes .524 even after slumping for now over half the season Moncada .421 Tim Anderson is actually doing better against RHP this year and is only .353 Slg. v LHP So when you see Madrigal and the slumbering Mercedes are still 2 of your top 3 big boppers against LHP that should accomplish 3 things :1. Show just about everyone that that the Sox need help against any handed pitcher. 2. Make you realize that Madrigal is a lot bigger piece to the Sox winning than previously thought. 3. Show anyone who was talking about the offense being fine and pointing to Run Differential as proof , that is no longer the case.

I guess I have a curious mind and always wonder if you just look at the BABIP stat , see how high it is and that's it ? Do you look at his LD% against RHP , Barrel rate, in zone hitting , outside zone swinging ,spray charts and other relevant stats to see if there could be any other explanation besides BABIP ? Using CF more, swinging at less pitches outside the zone, K % hitting pitches in the zone better/harder ? I mean sure, just looking at BABIP alone and seeing .378 with a .291 BA vs RHP tells you something. I guess that's too wide of a gap . But I specifically looked for something that might indicate a maturation as a hitter so I looked at how he did in hitters counts . After all that's where most good hitters fatten up their stats. I saw vast improvement from Engel between 2019 and 2020. Now I couldn't find a split for favorable counts unfortunately so this will also include how he did overall not just against RHP. Maybe this is too rudimentary. After all you would expect that when his stats go up and his BABIP goes up his stats in hitters counts will go up too. Just citing BABIP seems lazy to me unless you did a thorough investigation and could find no other improvements.

Eh with shifts and sticky stuff BABIP is over rated.Hit em where they ain't is still the name of the game. But still if you barrel it up and K less you will find holes more often than those who K more and don't hit it hard. I don't know if the shifts on Engel are so radical that he finds more holes because he hits them all over the field with authority. But yea MOOOOOT until/if he returns.

Wow we actually agree. The only difference is you said all that without mentioning Vaughn once and I always do to take the brunt of criticism. Also I remember early in the season before Engel got hurt and suggesting Engel get more AB's against RHP due to his year over year improvements in the last 3 years culminating with marked improvement in 2020. I think it was a conversation with @Chicago White Sox and you both thought it was BABIP luck. Nice to see you at least saying he deserved a shot before he got injured again.

You forgot about the much larger sample size of Vaughn being a 35 wRC+ against RHP. Do I want the other guys to get more of shot. Damn straight I do . AT least they aren't crap in the SSS and they are actually LH against a RHP pitcher. Imagine that, wanting LHB against RHP in modern baseball . Who would have thunk it. ? Oh yea apparently not you and your honesty about using your interpretation of my feelings over actually things I said. Let's give Vaughn all the starts against all RHP every day ! See I can draw baseless conclusions on your posts too.