CaliSoxFanViaSWside

And that response is bullshit . There is only one rookie of the year and most of the time it's based on more than 29 games. So now you it want it based on 29 game + however many games he'll played in his 1st 2 months next year ? How generous of you to allow him another 55 games to reach his ceiling when Anderson took 3 years. It doesn't really matter how raw you were .Once you are up you are expected to perform . Timmy learned on the job against the best. Madrigal has to do the same thing yet you want more from him based on how he played against inferior competition.

Easy there big fella whats the ruckus all about ? I didn't accuse you of that . Most of what I said pertained to you so focus on that ,not bolding one reference I made to the Madrigal haters. I don't think your a hater. You have legitimate concerns as do I . I'm just not ready to throw in the towel on the guy since trading too many guys with years of cheap $ ahead of them and limited payroll concerns over rule my thoughts on his ability to become a good player doing good things and improving enough to be an asset. Trading him now just means taking on more payroll to fill his position and more payroll and prospects given up to fill the starting pitching hole.

That was brought up by the guy not defending Madrigal. The point I made was rookies have to improve and neither Robert, Madrigal nor TA showed they were even close to being complete players and had/have plenty of room to grow.

I don't think its wise to focus on such an abbreviated season of fielding and base runner stats. Yes they were glaring mistakes but the season so short that we couldn't see how he could improve. If the 29 games can be tolerated as an aberration I don't see an awful lot of that tolerance in your posts. I would not be very tolerate of a 3 years sample size of 0 WAR. I can defend Madrigal and yet at the same time understand those who knock him or want to trade him as I myself have suggested just as I have suggested that Crochet is highly over rated by our fanbase based on a few innings of sample size and should also be considered as tradebait. There are plenty of reason to doubt both going forward or to believe in both. The only reason Crochet is valued higher than Madrigal is K's while pitching at 101 MPH is valued a lot more than a .340 BA based on dinks and bloops even though those dinks and bloops were sustained for a lot longer than Crochets sample. It's a lot more appealing to the eye to blow guys away than to dribble weak singles up the middle and get hits with 2 strikes. Crochet had to do one hing and do it well for 6 innings and he did all except for that pesky injury thing once again. Madrigal had to make contact get hits, run the bases and field his position and apparently some won't be happy until he also shows some power all while having a bum shoulder all year .

It took Anderson 3 years and over 1400 AB's to become the player he is now offensively and he made plenty of fielding errors also. Lots of mistakes in those 3 years hitting and fielding. He obviously had some tools strong arm very fast but plenty of toolsy guys never make it. Below average OPS+ for those 3 years. Luis Robert bat to balls skills not so great so also not exactly a finished product hopefully. Not good at the wall. Should get better there too. He had almost a month long slump where he couldn't even hit hittable fastballs fouling them off and popping them up instead of crushing them like he did in August. OPS+ finished at 101. Hey guess what Nick Madrigal had an OPS,wRC+ and OPS+ higher than his fellow rookie Luis Robert. Of course I am not going to say Madrigal will have the same impact in the future or was worth as much as Robert in their rookie years. The point is that each have their strengths and should have more value going forward than they did their rookie seasons. Each one is capable of increasing their WAR by 2 or 3 next year with Robert obviously the higher ceiling guy who could increase his WAR by 4 or 5.

Not sure on the injury play he ran through a stop sign. I have watched the video and read the stories but I can't find any that said he ran through a stop sign. He also wasn't out by a mile but he did make mistakes on that play. With no outs he made the 1st out at 3rd base. That is a no no. The hit was a bullet , usually hard to advance on a bullet. Ultimately the decision he made was probably based on that Avi playing CF was shaded to the right side of 2nd and the hit was to the left of 2nd. However he closed the gap quickly fielded the ball cleanly and made a perfect one hop throw with his above average arm. So everything considered he has to remind himself ahead of time that he was mostly in a situation where he shouldn't have been thinking about going to 3rd in the 1st place. Instead of using instincts to make a decision he should be doing some advanced baseball thinking about situation, number of outs and legitimate reasons where he could go to 3rd on a single which wouldn't be a bullet hit to the left side of 2nd with an OF known to possess a strong arm. He did run through a stop sign on an out at home in the Pittsburgh series and also in that series tried to advance to 3rd on a GB to SS and was gunned down. Dumb plays no doubt . It's hard to adjust to your own limitations when they have worked in the past but he is playing with the big boys now . He will learn but overall he will be a good base runner once he starts thinking ahead and realizes that advanced thinking will outweigh instant decisions based on previously reliable baseball instincts.

Ok just remember you said it's in the bag and you think it would come to pass in the next week. I could've sworn a month or less ago you made the same type of bold prediction on the same pitcher, but maybe I am wrong since I didn't bother to check.

It's Jerry and you've been let down before, plus Covid and too much faith in Beef,plus JR again would rather dangle the carrot than give you the dessert. And if @Chicago White Sox is saying it's in the bag that's more reason to think it won't happen. He always thinks it's going to happen. You know you're one of my favs. CWS !

There's definitely several things in the Sox favor with Hendriks but a 4th year and JR will be the main spokes in the wheel that determines how much he wants to please LaRussa and that may not be enough.

Well Heyman didn't mention that Kahnle is going to miss most of if not all of 2021.

Maybe he hits more doubles. That's what I am hoping for anyway. But in today's games outs are too precious. It's why everyone hates sac. bunts. I can see some attempted steals by Madrigal late in games when the Sox are tied or down a run with 2 outs but that won't result in that many steal attempts. Not enough to get 20+ at a fairly high rate when in those situations Madrigal will be watched closely.

I won't . Stealing isn't a big part of todays game. OBP and power is king. He just isn't fast enough to make a lot of attempts because he will get thrown out a lot. Leave stealing to the guys in the top 15% of sprint speed.

Yea it's going to tighten the market around Hendriks once some of these other guys are off the table but some more relievers still have to be moved.. If Treinen got AAV of $8.75M for 2 yrs that might strengthen Hendriks case for AAV but not for years. Some of these teams floating around Hendriks will have to shit or get off the pot soon.

Lazy me . Too used to Sox so when Hendriks signs with the Sox Hendrix will officially be his name.

Seems like a pretty good deal for Treinen.

I'm sure it's one of the things among many that Hendrix will consider as part of his decision. However 1st and foremost will be years and money. Everything else is a distant 2nd including Codify , dogs, past relationships with coaches and where his wife is from.

There is never 100 % truth in anything said regarding free agents. The Mets could be legitimately interested in Hand but also want Hendrix to know they will move on if they have to.

I wouldn't say the Sox are the top choice to sign him especially in a saturated relief pitcher market . My personal opinion is they won't play at the top of the market for a guy like Hendrix with plenty of other options out there. If you are holding out any hope I would temper it but it depends on how strongly LaRussa is pushing for him.

No not at all. They don't want to go over the luxury tax. They might still have room for Baez though.

Kenley Jansen isn't who he used to be for the last 3 seasons... Edit : Which is why they resigned Treinen.

This I can agree with since I have also said trading him isn't a terrible idea however if the Sox want to keep a young cheap core they cannot continue to keep trading that young cheap core when they also want to contend for multiple championships and at the same time limit payroll. I think we are all terrified that the Sox will Sox away true opportunities to win even one championship.

I know he didn't steal bases as well as expected in the minors so I don't consider that a big deal since he probably wouldn't be ahead of guys who can really run like Anderson and Robert. Moncada was supposed to have blazing speed but he couldn't steal bases very well either once got got up here. If you are referring specifically to outs going from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home he might be a bit aggressive but also wasn't playing at 100% for all but 4 games. I also think when you don't like someone his mistakes stand out. And I am disappointed in you. I used "heralded" and "shortcomings" as a lure to you and Harold . Peace , you know you're one of my favorites.

So they were strengths when they drafted him and in the minors but now they aren't ? Maybe we should pay more attention to that rather than the handful of games he played before and after the injury occurred.. He was injured in only his 5th game of the season. So instead of being heralded for a fine season played in pain we focus on his shortcomings that may have been caused by that pain ?

I just read it without posting much now. It's same old same old ,nothing really new to discuss. Both sides use the waiting game. Sometimes it's to the players advantage like with Machado and other times it's to the owners advantage like with the saturated FA reliever market. Overall though I'd have to say it's a bigger advantage to the owners.

Terrible. Barnhart is free agent in 2022. Gray and Winker for Crochet, Rutherford, Jake Burger and Hunter Schryver