CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 23, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) Is there any scenario wherein the White Sox take back McCutchen? Or is this more like the Pirates won't move their top bats, but the Yankees have an excess, so we're getting the Yankees involved in Glasnow to get the likes of Rutherford and Andujar back? I wouldn't rule it out entirely but almost. He was a legit superstar and there's no way at 30 years old he should've fell so low except for perhaps nagging injuries. He should still have big upside for 3 or 4 more years though his CF days are nearing an end. If part of the plan is to get reclamation projects to flip later who better than a youngish superstar who had 1 bad year and might be sold low who has basically 2 years left before he is a FA. Problem is giving up Q for him shouldn't be part of the plan

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 07:17 PM) there is no scenario where this is true. The teams trading for Q want to make the playoffs. Sale is better than Q. sale has a better chance of getting the team to the playoffs and WS. The Sox will not get the same talent in return for Q that they did for Sale. To be fair Caulfield was responding to a post of mine where I said , "Meadows has to be the headliner. Not only that but I was thinking Q could require a bigger haul than Sale since he has 1 more year and is cheaper than Sale. Plus the Sale trade had the #1 prospect in baseball who cost the Red Sox around $64M which maybe Hahn took into consideration as far as valuations go." Throw in the fact that Pittsburgh as a small market team cannot compete with the free agent money and you kind of have them bent over the proverbial negotiation table . But still it's mostly the extra year of control and the cheaper contract.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 06:54 PM) The problem with Q is the same one that Nats/Rizzo have with Eaton. As Sox fans and with most of us aware of even the simplest metrics like WAR, we all know the values of Eaton and Q, and can articulate arguments why Q might be worth the same or even more (rather than the 95% often-quoted) than Chris Sale. HOWEVER, if that Eaton trade blows up for the Nationals or any future trade for Q, the respective fanbases will be even more enraged because at least Chris Sale's a known quantity to nearly every baseball fan...the old, well, Dombrowski really rolled the dice and "went for it" line of thinking. When you're trading the same packages or potentially better ones for "non-star" players that aren't going to draw fans by name recognition alone, it's a dicier game for GM's. Another good example would be Shelby Miller, who was acquired partially because of "attachment/sentimental" reasons by LaRussa. When those trades go bad, they get you fired. With all that said, there will be a ton of GM's interested in Q still because they know his true value, contract, everything...and that doesn't mean we have to lower our trade expectations because of everything I just highlighted. But it's an additional factor to consider. I don't think it's a factor between the GM's/ teams making the deal. I can't see the Pirates GM saying " hey Rick your killing me here asking for all that. I don't want to be Rizzo-ized . Besides after the initiial backlash against Rizzo its come back around to well Giolito isn't everything he's cracked up to be. Backlash is just peoplse opinion all copying each other. The results of the Eaton trade won't be known for a few years.

Have to set your DVR to record hot stove every day . As long as the Sox are in the headlines for their past and future moves and the rumors flying it's fun to watch. A lot of fluff on the show but since the winter meetings I've seen numerous guys talking about the Sox .,,Heyman , Morosi , Rosenthal , Dan Hayes, Rogers, Joel Sherman , Merkin . By the way here's the link to it http://m.mlb.com/cws/video/?content_id=121...14&c_id=cws . It's on the Sox website. It's not the whole phone call so don't know if it's much.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) Couple thoughts about a Quintana trade. Some of us need a perspective check because I keep hearing sheepish suggestions of trade offers--many leaving out the top names of other teams' prospect lists. Reiterating what another poster brought up earlier...we got Moncada and Giolito in trades earlier this off season. Those are top 5 prospects. I'm really surprised to see so many posters say certain prospects are "surely off limits" when we have already been receiving the very top 1-5 prospects in the game as a starting point to even larger packages! When guys like Austin Meadows are mentioned--they are blue chip prospects, but not even top 5--I'm looking at what else can be added to get that value up--not whether Meadows would be available--it's more whether they have the depth to add enough to Meadows to get a deal done. The fact that we are even talking to the Pirates is BECAUSE they have a guy like Meadows to headline a package that would be enough to get Q. There are many teams right now who do NOT have that top 10 name to START the discussion. SO...if you are one who has been nervously hesitant to bring up certain prospects' names as if to say we shouldn't even mention them...I would suggest thinking MUCH bigger--because if they are a prospect at ANY level of the game, they ARE in play for a player like Quintana. Quintana isn't just a guy you trade for, he's a guy who you break the bank to make sure YOU are the team who gets him and not a competitor--because whoever gets him will be enabled to acquire a young, controllable all-star front line starter at virtually no cost $ wise. So yes...to pay for that will require a complete scrounging of whatever value your minor league system holds and hope your offer is more than just about every other team who has intentions of contending in the next 3 years. Especially if you are smaller market with a lower free agent budget, this is your very rare shot to acquire a difference maker for very little monetary compensation. On the flip side...if you're the Sox...you can choose which package suits your liking the most. If you don't see that top 5, top 10 name, or an offer that might lack that name but is VERY saturated with multiple top 50 names, you confidently say Merry Christmas to you and yours, but no thank you! Good post. Meadows has to be the headliner. Not only that but I was thinking Q could require a bigger haul than Sale since he has 1 more year and is cheaper than Sale. Plus the Sale trade had the #1 prospect in baseball who cost the Red Sox around $64M which maybe Hahn took into consideration as far as valuations go. 5 prospects ( some of whom will bust) headlined by Meadows for a really inexpensive very good pitcher, to keep for 4 years, or flip him and recover some of what they paid for him, while he possibly leads your team to the playoffs or a World Championship, and your team cannot pay market rate for any superstars thus limiting your means to an end, is not asking for too much. Edit. If a trade happens with the Pirates and the Sox get Bell I have dibs on the " Cool Papa" Bell nickname.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 06:48 AM) This deal makes a ton of sense for the Pirates, even at a steep cost. If their playoff chances start going south within 2 years or so, and provided Quintana is still pitches as he does now, they can still flip him again for an awesome return to some other team to help offset the prospects they lost to acquire him in the first place. Ha you just posted what I was going to say only I'd say Q could put up even better numbers with the Pirates. Then if they end up trading him they might be able to get back almost as much as they gave up.We've seen guys with 2 years left fetch a lot and relief pitcher rentals also fetch a lot . So it's entirely in the realm of possibility that Q becomes even better in the NL with a stronger defense around him.

Means as a prospect he is on the way up. A lot of good buzz on him.

Don Cooper calling into MLBN Hot Stove this morning to talk about the new pitchers the Sox have got.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 09:02 AM) But if they are that attractive and worth a better prospect from another team, the White Sox are more than likely winning more games than most imagined. So the idea of a real high draft pick would be by the boards. So a team that won 78 games last year traded their best pitcher and best Of'er and a good chance to trade their nearly as good as the 1st pitcher 2nd pitcher and possibly their 2 best relief pitchers will win how many games with Melky repeating his last year and Frazier hitting for a bit higher batting average ?

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 08:43 PM) And? Quick, head to your happy place before you get offended again.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) Would be kind of cool if Howard went to Indy ball. Howard definitely still wants to play. He's working out like a madman and hired a personal chef . So in a monht or 2 we should be hearing stories about Howard having lost 25 pounds and being leaner and meaner.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) I'd like Frazier and Judge. Frazier is build like a brick s***house. Legs like tree trucks and arms all jacked up.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 18, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) The irony here is that the biggest argument for Q with the Astros is the undervaluation of him due to analytics...being over-corrected to the point with some front offices now that undervalued has morphed into "overvalued." It is strange to see the feedback from Colorado being that Q is "no sure thing" out in Colorado...well, no pitcher is or has been, not even extreme sinker/groundball pitchers. If it was that easy to find the perfect pitcher for that environment, you'd think they would have done it over the past 20+ years, right? By their argument, they should never trade for front-line pitching because of Mark Hampton/Darryl Kyle or whatever argument they wish to make. Then, fine. You can remain buried behind the Dodgers and Giants in Carlos Gonzalez' last season. And no hitter is a sure thing outside of Colorado so it evens out.

Hawks merrily rolling along with 5th straight win. Love when Hartman and Hiney score.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Agreed. Encarnacion needs to sign before a market for Abreu/Frazier will develop And Napoli and Trumbo even Luis Valbuena with his high OBP and good pop might get more interest than Abreu/Frazier. There's also Adam Lind, Brendon Moss , Chris Carter for teams to consider.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) Well yes, but Jones throws fireballs and that is the only pitch they are confident in. Slider ?

My feeling is the Sale Eaton deals were the easy part. Theoretically trading Q should be easy too if the Sox settle which they will not do. Someone will cave amongst the contenders. Patience is key. Right now I think the 2 most likely to be moved before the season starts are Q and Robertson. Even with Robertson moving . I'm not sure the Sox make Jones the closer. Right now he is way more valuable than Robertson but if kept making him a closer could screw with his value. I prefer keeping him in his comfort zone. Melky could be an effective DH for the Sox if guys like Engel, May, Coats , Liriano or Tilson play the outfield. I'd be surprised if Abreu is moved, There's just still too many 1B types out there that aren't moving yet. Plus I like the idea of Abreu chatting it up with Moncada during the spring. I think they have similar hitting styles where spraying the ball all over the field is important to them. Plus Abreu provides pop which will be sorely lacking in the lineup. A team that doesn't hit HR's even if they are bad is a very boring team . Frazier, again, not much of a market for 3rd basemen . He needs to hit for higher average and get his OBP higher. He hits way too many pop ups and struck out way too much. If he can adjust to the AL in his 2nd year he'd be more valuable. The Sox are going to be bad in 2017 regardless if the remaining pieces are moved before the season starts. Just how bad they are depends on who else gets moved and who the Sox sign to replace them. The rest of the winter should be fun if their remaining MVP's ( most valuable pieces ) bring the Sox what they covet. If they don't then the trade deadline in July will have to do.

I feel your pain.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) I know the rebuild is a bittersweet moment for the fans of this franchise, but I applaud the foresight of the front office to get this done now. The 3 main reasons for this being: 1.) Cleveland firmly owns this division right now, but outside them, the Central is kind of a dumpster fire. The Tigers are old, expensive, and their farm system is empty. They are at the very end of their window and have some brutal ends of contracts over the next 5 years. Minnesota, while having a relatively stacked farm system over the last 5 or so years, hasnt really seen a lot of their homegrown talent pan out and is sorely lacking marquee talent. The Royals cupboard is pretty bare and are still talking like they want to give it one last try with this core. Be our guest. The Sox will be a punching bag for the division next season, and maybe again in 2016, but they are looking like they will have a window when this core reaches the majors that could last awhile. 2.) The CBA and draft pick compensation. For a team like the Sox, it has been especially painful to pursue top end FAs because, not only are they incredibly expensive, but the draft pick compensation absolutely ruins any chance at sustaining success through homegrown talent. With the way the new CBA is structured and the improvements made in the scouting/drafting department, I think the Sox are in a pretty good position to really start developing players in their system that can supplement a good core moving forward. 3.) The payroll flexibility we will have with this core and the upcoming free agent classes. As it stands, the Sox currently have $35M on the books for 2018 and $2.25 for 2019. Jerry has never been one to hand out big contracts, but they are positioned so well to make a play at a Machado or Harper or Donaldson during that 2018-2019 offseason. Ideally they wouldnt need to spend mega dollars on those guys, they would just need to add guys that compliment the core. To have that type of flexibility is insane though. Seeing Sale and Eaton go really sucks and the guys they got for them could end up busting, but the future is incredibly bright right now for the White Sox. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I am impressed at the vision and direction of this front office. I was wondering today about the timing of the rebuild also. My question is how it lined up with the talent in the last, hmmm let's say ,4 draft classes. Is there a concensus on how strong the draft classes have been in that time ? Maybe some of our minor league experts can help me out here.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Is Chris Sale a a hard head? Does he stand by what he believes in? Is he a rebel? I think yes, he rebels against management for what he believes in, but I don't think that makes him an asshole. Did he punch a teammate in the face? Did he beat his wife or sleep with another teammate's? Did he get away with murder charges like other pro athletes have? Or does he have the facial expression of one Conor Gillaspie... I didn't think so. Unless people have more specific evidence or know him personally I think it's silly to declare Sale an asshole now that he's with another org. By all accounts I think he's a pretty cool dude based on how he interacted with the fans (some on this forum had first hand experience), the way he stuck his neck out for a kid, and his post game interviews. Thank you. This is supposed to be an appreciation thread. I can't believe a few MINOR offenses and a few of the big mouths here declare Sale insane without ever having known him. True ace, True competitor, True winner. Gave the Six a huge hometown discount . The hate is misplaced. Management has done way more to hurt the Sox than Chris Sale ever has . Nice to know corporate America will continue to crush the working man . God forbid the working man who at first tries to reason with management only to be ignored does something a little more drastic. Yes I know Chris Sale isn't your typical blue collar worker but the principles are the same.Why do you think there are no more Jimmy Hoffa's out there ?

Holy moly ! What a last few days it's been ! Madness.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) Getting him into a more relaxed clubhouse is worth the gamble. If you turn him around, you either get a superstar OF, or you get an amazing trade piece. If not, he isn't signed that long anymore. Imagine the speed and athleticism with Anderson, Moncada and Puig.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) You can put a big red X in front of Sale's face on your sig. I will miss Sale's dominance but I won't miss his childish ways so I say WELCOME TO CHICAGO YOAN MONCADA! When you are an employee of incompetent management only management paints you as childish. It takes a man to rock the boat. He probably could have chosen his battles better but being frustrated makes you crazy .

Chris continued good health and so glad you will be playing for a franchise that cares about winning.Kick some ass and destroy the Cubs in the World Series if it ever comes to that.

At this point I think Benintendi is more of a sure thing. OK you can peg me as one of those who liked the SSS of his ML debut as opposed to Moncada's. Moncada is the toolsier guy and we've seen how the Sox have coveted and failed with those types. Just wanted more of a sure thing for Sale. Moncada will have to prove he can hit change ups and curves. If he can though... watch out. If he can't... yikes.