jackie hayes

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) Yes you did. I don't know if he's worth $15M or not. That's why I said it's hard to quantify. However, the Red Sox don't seem to think he's worth that. Keep in mind we are discussing a contract after the posting fee was paid. No, no I didn't. I never said that you know he's worth $15 mil (or something close, as I never set a firm limit at $15 mil) or that you know he's not. Maybe you don't know. Not that it matters. Keep in mind that the posting fee is not "paid", nor will it be until a contract is struck. It only becomes an obligation when the contract is signed, so the contract does not come "after the posting fee was paid."

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 06:19 PM) You turned my words around then said it was absurd. That bs gets tiresome. No, I didn't. I'll say again, if you want to say Matsuzaka is not worth anything close to $15 mil per in this market, as you suggested in your question, then argue that. Otherwise, it'd be nice if had something to say. Cheers.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 04:18 PM) I didn't say there is no guide to his value. I said it's hard to qauntify. To put words in someone's mouth is absurd. Oh, bs. I didn't put words in your mouth. You asked what guide to his value suggests that he's worth $15 mil per. I answered that every contract signed this offseason, along with the bidding just to talk to him, along with every report as to his potential, suggests that he would not get much less than $15 mil. Those are my guides, and that's what I said. I never said, 'oh, he's worth exactly $15 mil dollars per year for x years.' If you want to say that there's nothing to suggest that he's worth more than $8 mil per, fine, argue that. But this semantic bs gets tiresome.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) His market value is hard to quantify. It's a matter of opinion. The Red Sox opinion is the one that matters since it's their dollars. Nope, the commish's opinion matters, too. Without a market we don't know market value. Obviously. But, c'mon, to say that there's no guide to his value is absurd. Multiple teams wanted to pay $20 mil+ just to talk to him. The Red Sox, the "opinion...that matters", valued him far more than those. How many teams would pay $20 mil just to bargain with Gil Meche? If you really believe that he would only get $7-8 mil on the fa market, you're wrong. If you ask for rock-solid proof, well, there's no proof that Mark Buehrle would get more than $500 k as a fa. Do you doubt that too?

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 01:58 PM) By bidding that much, the worst that could happen if they don't sign him is they kept him away from the Yankees. If they bid that much and refuse to give anything close to market value, the commish should invalidate the bid. Otherwise, the posting system is pretty much dead. Not to mention that it's a black eye for MLB.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 01:26 PM) Why? This dude is unproven at the ML level. What makes him worth a $15M per multiyear deal? Whatever made him worth $51 mil. I don't think there's any doubt he'd get something like $15 mil as a fa in this market. He's certainly not only getting Marquis money. Now, players may get less than fair market value because of the posting system. But not this much less -- it's ridiculous to ask someone to accept half their value just because you CHOSE to bid ludicrous amounts of money to talk. Would you advise your client to f himself over just to do the Red Sox a solid?

Here's the Herald article the ESPN article's referring to. Lots of vagueries, like and this odd criticism: Well...yeah. "Hinted"??? Those are just the rules. The article refers to the starting point in the negotiations (Sawks: $7-8 mil, Boras: $15), but says "It is unclear if counterproposals have been exchanged". Huh? That's kinda important. Very weird article -- it strongly blames Boras without any details. If I were Matsuzaka's agent, I'd be "disinterested" with a $7.5 mil offer, as well. And I'd be calling Selig...

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:59 PM) If the Twins were his childhood team, I couldn't really give a s***. His job is to produce on the field. Whatever he wears outside of the chalk lines is fine with me. And before we get further into it, the mention of it by JR was a low-blow and a very shrewd move for future contract negotiations. Tipping your cards saying "MB is our ace and we loooooooooove him" means that he'd likely have to shell out some more dough because MB could easily say "I'm your ace and since I'm so important, you can pay me this much more." Good for you. I do give a s***. I don't want anything drastic done, and I don't stay awake thinking about this, but I'd prefer that he not do it. I don't know about your second point. Maybe. But there's obviously the possibility that it hurts the negotiations, as well. But the point remains that the Sox brass does have the right to make this an issue, whatever the intent.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:25 PM) Who the f*** cares what a player does off the field as long as he is not doing anything illegal or cheating in the sport that he is playing in? Athletes don't owe you a damn thing. They try to give meaning to your life by throwing and/or hitting a ball. You don't own what they can do. I'm not a fan of easy listening so I demand that all players have easy listening CD's and songs banned from their possession and iPods! I couldn't give a s*** if Buehrle, Dye or any player wore women's clothing (even with a *gasp* Cubs logo on it!) during their personal life. Here's another idea. If you don't want to see it, don't go search it out on the internet so you can engage in some whiny pseudo-outrage. That last paragraph is a mini-course in irony. Don't try to cast this as a style issue. Music, drag, lol. Go nuts with the pantyhose, Mark. Fans want to see that the players on their team care about the team as much as (preferably, more than) they do, because there's a notion that indifferent players won't perform as well. I don't believe that's true of Mark, but the issue just keeps coming up. I don't think I "own" what Mark can do. All I can do is not like it. But the team he's working for does have some say about his choices outside the park, just like all employers. And hey, look at how this started. (Although, as I said before, I'd rather KW and Ozzie do any chiding.) I guess you'd think it's okay if Mark said that he doesn't care for Sox fans? Or if he wore Twins apparel entering and exiting the park? None of these are illegal or crooked, so we really wouldn't have any right to complain.

And you KNOW the Jets fans will be pissed no matter who gets picked.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) That about sums it up. Anybody who thinks MB should hide loyalty to his home team because the Sox pay his salary has not got a whole lot of understanding about growing up a fan with home team loyalty. Well, that's total bs, but otherwise a good point.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 01:48 PM) Jared Weaver also hasn't said numerous times that he's wanted to play for the Cards. I love Mark, but he needs to be more careful about this junk, I'm tired of hearing about him and the Cardinals. Agreed. Plus, you can't compare blood to team loyalties. The Weaver comparisons are just silly.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) there are two points here 1) you can certainly show up and watch the game and root for the cardinals without being so conspicuous as to wear the hat 2) when there has already been this controversy in the past and you have already made strange comments about your love of the Cardinals its just stupid judgment. That.

C'mon, someone show Jon some love. We don't make the playoffs without his regular season dominance.

El Duque getting out of that jam was the best single moment, but the first pitcher I think of for the postseason as a whole is Contreras. Guy took the ball at the front of each series, pitched the most innings, he was our clear-cut ace at that point.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 12:26 AM) My suggestion would be to start working on a new deal for the best pitcher this organization has seen since Jack McDowell. Anything less is a huge mistake and probably won't ever be forgotten by this fan. You know, for someone trying to convince us that signing a 28 year old pitcher who's logged a ton of innings to a huge 5 or 6-year deal is a smart thing to do, you might want to evoke a different memory than Blackjack. Just saying.

Thanks, Freddy, for everything 2005 meant to all of us. I liked Jayson Stark's take on the trade. Last year it felt like we were just adding something on top of the old team. This seems to be a much bigger change. I like the change, but it's still strange watching one of the big pieces leave.

Kalapse and wite reflect on some of the awful players who've somehow made a living in baseball, in the yet another ARod thread.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 04:18 PM) Maybe I missed a thread, but what happened to the SoxTalk front page? Is it still there and I'm just blind to find the link? Otherwise, why'd it get taken down? Sorry that two got posted, not sure what happened. Ya, I've been wondering that too.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 02:34 PM) Here is what it would take to keep this team together, as far as I would guess for 2008 and 2009 (numbers in millions of dollars). Basically I am taking the contracts of this fall, and using those as a basis to guess where salaries will be in the years that these players don't have deals signed. Starting Pitching Buehrle- 17.0/17.0 Garcia- 14.0/14.0 Garland- 12.0/15.0 Vazquez- 12.0/14.0 Contreras- 10.0/10.0 totals 55.0/70.0 Just by my guesses, we would have $70 million dollars wrapped up in the old starting 5 by 2009. Now keep in my we would still have to give huge raises to Joe Crede (say 15.0) and Jermaine Dye (probably also in the 15.0 range)to keep them around, not to mention guys like Iguchi (probably at least 6.0-7.0, if not more), who is now making less the Mark DeRosa for perspectives sake. Even if you drop Garcia and add back McCarthy, Bmac would be hitting his first arb year in 2009, so his salary would be taking a nice jump, not to mention that a few of the main bullpen all hitting their late arbitration years, and seeing their numbers jump big time. To keep this team as is would take something in the area of $130 in 2008, and $150 million by 2009. This team is maxed out as far as revenue sources, because their park was pretty close to sold out this year, and they also didn't have all of the extra playoff revenues coming in, which was balanced out by the addition of a few higher price seats, a new sponsor, and higher comcastnet revenues. Pretty much unless you want to pay an extra 50% for your tickets, this team cannot pay the kind of salaries it would take to bring back all of these players. Not to mention how long the deals would be.

Gonzalez? For a team with so many good young outfielders, that can't use the dh, that already signed juan pierre... Prelude to a trade?

I wish the owner (or 'owner', as you like it) wouldn't call out the players. That's a bit too Cubanish for me. Maybe he meant the Buehrle bit as a joke, but it doesn't seem helpful.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 06:29 PM) The Royals will now have something like 1/3 of their entire salary for next season tied up in Mike Sweeney and Gil Meche. Lol -- that is a pretty funny way of looking at it.

QUOTE(bmags @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 06:18 PM) guys i hear this is a salary dump with pujols. He's one of the best players in baseball. Have fun with this rumor i started. O I heard that report too! Right before the one about the imminent Halladay/Wells package, right? On that station with that guy. Yeah, that sounded good.