Randar68

QUOTE(JimH @ May 16, 2005 -> 07:48 AM) This morning's BA Draft Blog talks about Miami RHP and White Sox fan Cesar Carillo. They mention he'll likely go in the top half of the 1st round and quite possibly the top 10, due to teams wanting to avoid Boras clients, specifically starting pitchers. Always the wild card when we get down to the last few weeks prior to a draft. And people wonder why the baseball draft needs reform, teams like the Rangers, Yanks, and a few others that have dealt with lot's of Boras clients end up with multiple top 15 talent in some drafts no matter where their pick is. I really would like to see a slotted draft similar to the NBA. Bonuses are slotted, teams can then take the best players available and players know ahead of time what is realistic and what isn't.

QUOTE(soxfan420 @ May 13, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) i would cut every single one of them i dont care if they are a top prospect or not, if it was performance enhancing they should be gone, if it was weed or pain pills they should be kept. 1) They don't publicly release what substance it was that showed up (helps people figure out how to cheat it) 2) This early in the testing process, going from a very limited testing to a relatively wide-ranging testing, there are going to be a lot of people who test positive who are just taking health or nutritional supplements who have simply wrongly assumed what they have always been taking is still ok. If you walk into a GNC, a majority of the workout supplements you find are going to contain some banned subtance or another. 3) It's asinine and ignorant to paint everyone with a broad brush when you have no clue what it was they were doing. Have you ever seen Robert Valido? You think he's taking steroids? Ummmm, ok... People, this is the learning curve. Be concerned when people are multiple offenders and either aren't learning their lessons or can't stop trying to cheat. "release them all to send a message"... Perhaps the most ignorant, stupid suggestion I've yet seen.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 14, 2005 -> 10:38 PM) Count Wes Whisler in that group that could be similar. He was a really high pick for a guy that never succeeded at the college level from the mound (IIRC). However definately has a nice arm and low mileage. Very projectable as well. But hey you do a mix of both and if you like a guys arm you draft him, especially in latter rounds. It just seems like the Sox have taken a little more risk earlier then some teams, but they also appear to try and balance that by drafting tons of college guys overall and they are the safer pick in general (not to say you should not draft high schoolers cause you should, especially now when so many GM's are focusing on college level players and because of this they are getting overdrafted and the high schoolers are sliding. Do you take a guy who's only had limited experience at a position and who is easier to coach out of their bad habits? Or a guy like Wyatt Allen who was abused beyong belief in college, had a ton of bad habits, and just was never able to harness it. If you take a guy with the million dollar arm, you have the potential to end up with a guy like Randy Johnson. Teams would rather draft guys who project to staff aces if they can fix whatever their flaw is, than to draft guys who are refined and polished (Jim Parque) but whose ceiling is a 5th starter. 5th starters are easier to find than the Sox have made it out to be the last couple years. Aces are rare, and developing your own is the only way to get one without paying out your ass. People love to b**** about failed pitching draft picks, but I'm sorry, it's a numbers game you're gonna lose no matter what, you just hope you end up with a few diamonds every now and then. BUT, you have to play the game to have that chance.

QUOTE(danman31 @ May 13, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say one of our big 4 will be dealt at the deadline. Fields won't be eligible until close to the deadline, but I doubt he will be traded anyway. I'm thinking one of them is going to get traded. Kind of silly to bother wasting time talking about that when injuries haven't created any glaring needs and there are few obvious holes that need significant upgrade. Is this the minor league board or the "Why bother cause they're all going to be traded, so let's just whine about it" board? Just curious.

QUOTE(danman31 @ May 13, 2005 -> 02:59 PM) Allen was in Bristol. No **** Sherlock!! I meant this year, aka. last year's HS draft picks. The Sox generally put their freshly-drafted HS picks in Bristol, along with their Latino players coming from the DSL. But this year, there's a good chance Allen will be in Great Falls, although Bristol->Kanny is another option if they expect to give him some time in Kanny. Salvador Sanchez, coming in from the DSL will almost certainly be in Bristol, the topic of this thread...

QUOTE(poorme @ May 13, 2005 -> 11:49 AM) which is precisely why i don't want them to take a pitcher. i'm biased toward big sluggers, who may not have many tools, but do have the two most important ones. You mean like Joe Borchard? Come on. It's much better to draft a good hitter with projectible size/power and a real position in the field than to draft a straight-up power hitter out of college. You never know how much of that power is metal bats and how much is ability. The odds are probably equivalent to taking a pitcher that they'll ever produce in the majors. I'm highly anti-power hitter if that's their primary tool.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 13, 2005 -> 08:56 AM) Just thought I'd ask this question. He's going to start in Bristol or Great Falls this season I'm assuming now. Definitely one to keep an eye on. Here's a bit about him from a earlier story posted here; The Latino players coming from the DSL usually start in Bristol. The Sox use Great Falls more for their recent college draft picks and developmental HS picks(last year's draft, ie Brandon Allen, etc)...

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 12, 2005 -> 04:48 PM) I was just thinking the samething. They must have told the teams before they released the info. I take it Toca is gone now too? The teams found out a day or two prior to the press release. Note Valido was not in the lineup the night before the press release came out.

QUOTE(ptatc @ May 12, 2005 -> 08:34 PM) many of the GNC products contain steroid precursors or masking agents that will show a positive test. With the increased positive tests, the players will eventually learn to ask the athletic trainer about the products before they take them. Yep, guys basically can no longer just take substances off a shelf and feel 100% sure they'll be fine. It really raises the importance of having well-educated trainers and really educating the players in your system about how to make sure what you are taking will not get you in trouble with the league. You can walk into GNC and practically buy steroids. The substances they sell walk a really fine line. Congress is really b****ing at everyone, but why don't they take a look at the FDA and bring "nutritional supplements" under their control instead of letting them run willy-nilly?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2005 -> 08:03 AM) What is going on in the Sox minor league system? Between the steroid suspensions, this, and the other players that have been suspended, this has been a little nuts. Is this typical to have this many problems? You can start referring to them as "drug suspensions". Steroids are just a small subset of the banned substances.

QUOTE(farmteam @ May 12, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Hmm...the guy I'd like is Tyler Greene, although he's a Boras client. Not only is he a Boras client, but his bat is questionable on the next level. I'd rather take a SS with a questionable glove and a legit bat.

QUOTE(poorme @ May 12, 2005 -> 06:46 PM) we haven't exactly been good at selecting pitchers over the past decade....i like guys who can flat out hit...maybe stephen head, 1B, ole miss. Everyone struggles with taking pitchers, especially outside of the top 10 or so. Taking head mid-First round would be a wasted pick compared to the other talent available.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 12, 2005 -> 07:26 PM) with a top 10 pick you want to take a guy you can draft for sure... but at 15 with no 2nd round pick or supplemental picks.... I hope they would risk Weaver or Drew if the opportunity comes. You can only take that risk if you are committed entirely, to signing them. You cannot risk taking a guy who won't sign when you don't have another pick until the middle of the 3rd round. Could be a "lost" draft class by doing that unless you sign a bunch of high-round-talent signability picks later in the draft.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 12, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for these guys. We also know nothing about what any of the situations or substances might be. They test for more than just steroids, including quite a few over the counter substances that show up in health food products. Hopefully it's just a lesson learned.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 12, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) This could be why Antoin Gray is on the suspended list. Toca rumored to be one of the names. Giambi was just released, so he could have been a positive test, although we should wait for the names to be released.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 12, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) I think in baseball you draft for talent over need... That said i think we did a really good job signing all our guys last year... only like 2 of them werent signed and one was KW's son.... So I hope they take the best player available regardless of their agent. Not quite accurate. They signed their first 20 selections (thru the 16th round) last year... I'd like to know if Dave Wilder regrets not signing Wes Hodges. Gonna be a 1st or second round pick next draft, IMO. Best available player is a nice way to go, but unfortunately, money and signability always factor into the equation. Weaver and Drew won't have the leverage they had last year, but they won't be easy signs either. Boras has a lot of first round talent this year, so there are going to be a lot of kids fall because of that. We already know about the Sox's aversion to dealing with him.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 12, 2005 -> 12:28 PM) Randar, money and agent aside, where would you rank Drew amongst all position players? Just, talking about pure skills here (as opposed to including signability, etc etc). Drew is in the top 5 out of the position players. Probably the 3rd or 4th best prospect or so. His MLB-readiness is in question being out of baseball for a year, but he was the most MLB-ready position player last year. In terms of ceiling, he's farther down, but talent combined with experience and relatively low risk moves him way up the list, IMO. If he is drafted and signs right away, I would imagine he'd be in AA before the year was over and would have an outside chance at making a club next spring.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 12, 2005 -> 11:14 AM) If Crede continues playing solid ball this year, the sox could sign him to a deal, thereby having Josh Fields move to 1B? I thought I read that somewhere. Maybe some columnist surmising I've been throwing that out there for a while.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 12, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) And we are looking at needing a 1B possibly in the very near future with Frank and Pauly both possibly out the door in 06. Are there any big bopper type 1B's out there that could be up the Sox alley? Rogo and Fields could both play 1st potentially, as could Ryan Sweeney, IMO.

QUOTE(JimH @ May 12, 2005 -> 10:50 AM) Another smaller issue to consider is whether the White Sox have any premium draft and follow prospects they're trying to sign. I know they have until roughly May 31 to get that done, and I have not seen the BA article on draft and follows yet ... but if the Sox have one of the hot ones, it may determine what they do early on to an extent. I doubt it will have much of an effect on their 1st round pick, considering they don't have another pick until the middle of the third round. The last several years they've generally had about 4+ picks prior to their 3rd rounder.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 12, 2005 -> 10:21 AM) I'd say a SS or 2b man who can switch hit or at least hit lefty, who has a good glove, hits for avg. and makes contact. Well, you basically described all of 1 player in this draft. Way to be generic...

QUOTE(JimH @ May 12, 2005 -> 10:40 AM) Donny Lucy too, although he is not off to a rip roaring start in pro ball. Yeah, he's been hurt, but I forgot about him for some reason.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2005 -> 09:59 AM) If they want a 1st baseman, wait and draft Larish (he definately has tons of power, although I don't know whether he'll excel in the minors or not...his average is a bit worrisome). There are a few SS's that will fall in the Sox range or could and I think thats where they go. Or your right, pitching, you can never have too much of it and they do like right handed arms. I could easily see them grabbing the best "signable" pitcher on the board. I would be thrilled if they actually drafted and signed a guy like Weaver or Drew who are relatively close to being MLB-ready, but that's a bit of a pipedream, I know. That said, I'm not terribly thrilled or excited about the current crop of college players available this year, at least not the ones we're looking at in the #15 range. I think the late 1st and sandwich picks are going to be about equally valuable as this mid-first pick this year, don't see much drop-off there.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 12, 2005 -> 08:38 AM) They'll look at catcher or SS in the 1st round. The only way they take a catcher is if Jeff Clement falls to 15, the Sox do like him. What are the Sox needs? 1) Every organization always needs pitching. That said, pitchers are always a coin flip. After taking a ton of lefties last year, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox go with "The best available pitching option". More specifically, the Sox lack RH'd power arms in their organization. Those guys are generally pretty risky, though. Much more risk/reward picks than proven college pitchers. 2) SS's are always great draft picks, because they can usually move to just about anywhere on the diamond if they don't work out at SS. That said, the Sox have 2 defensive whizes at SS and could use a legit bat. In general, the Sox don't have much depth at the corner IF positions behind Fields/Rogo. Very little depth there. I like Brandon Allen a lot, but he looked terribly overmatched in Bristol last year and will be in for another year of short-season ball. 3) The Sox have a lot of OF talent, but not much below AA. 4) Chris Stewart and Fransisco Hernandez are their only catching prospects. Again, if Clement does drop to them, I would surprised if they passed on him. They are short on power bats, and Clement might eventually 1st baseman, something that is an organizational need as well. In short, you can never draft enough pitching or SS's early, and OF/Catching/Pitching elsewhere in the draft.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 10, 2005 -> 10:02 PM) Actually none scored. In the sixth, he gave up a HR, then a double, then a WP, then a 2 singles. The runners were stranded. My bad, thx.