nitetrain8601

Jabroni, refer to this: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...ic=34477&st=285

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) John Rocker/Kurt Angle has spoken and he said that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Still waiting for my answers.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) What in the hell does it matter how much better Ozuna is defensively at SS than Uribe? All that matters is that you said Ozuna is a better defensive SS than Uribe. And you are wrong. Still waiting for my answers.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Ozuna's hitting better lately? The next time he hits a ball out of the infield, it will be a first. He's leading the world in fewest feet per hit. Ozuna was a nice story in ST and all, but he definitely hasn't carried over his hitting ability into the regular season. I like Ozuna because of his hustle and attitude, but if we have to count on him to play more than twice a week.....we're screwed. I'm not talking about the offense because I know Uribe is a better offensive player than Ozuna.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:32 PM) Ahhh, backtracking... Did I? It's not backtracking if I didn't say it, is it? Just answer those two questions, I don't want to hear anything else, just answer.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:29 PM) You never said Uribe is a butcher at SS but you are trying to say that Ozuna is a better defensive SS than Uribe. That is just plain wrong. Oh yeah, because you have seen the type of prospect he was and have seen every one of his games. Not. And again, I didn't say, Ozuna>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Uribe times a trillon. I said I think he's a better fielder. I didn't say he is most definately the best fielder in the game or is vastly better than Uribe at SS. Did I?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) Glad you helped your part of the debate with this spectacular gem of insight. Just finished saying I never said Uribe was butcher in the field. Find me where I said that smartasses. Also said that Ozuna is just a better fielder(didn't say how much better) and that Uribe is better suited at 2B and 3B. I guess people can't accept that.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:21 PM) If anyone is complaining about Uribe's play at SS, I don't want to know what they think about our right side of the infield. Iguchi has been solid in the field, but he has absolutely no range. PK is pretty much the same. Uribe is as good of a defensive SS as we've had here in a long time. How many times does he just boot grounders like Valentin used to? Ozuna has shown me nothing to suggest he's an above average defensive infielder. I never said he was a butcher at SS, lots of people just assume that.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) I find it funny that everyone is agreeing with me that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Thanks though. By the way, is there any room left on "Crede's Crew"? I just love that .225 AVG of his! So if I bring a bunch of guys to this site and they agree with me on every point I make, am I automatically right? Stupid ass argument made by a stupid ass poster. Not suprised it came from you.

QUOTE(qwerty @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:17 PM) RF= Range Factor ((PO + A) divided by innings). ZR= Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc. I look at zone rating before i look at range factor because alot of times players can have a good range factor due to the fact that they are in the right place at the right time. Zone rating is based on how far you go for the balls to either side of the field. Up, down, right, left... it is all included. And how do you calculate that? If you have a Scott Rolen at 3B, wouldn't your range automatically be better or automatically worse(not sure how it works) because he gets to so many balls?

And how the hell does a stat calculate such things as range? That's a stat you really can't put a number on. I do go to a ton more games than any of you do. Uribe as a 2B or 3B> Uribe as a SS. Never did I say he was a butcher at SS either(but I guess some guys like arguing to make them look tough) I said Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:05 PM) Thanks for taking care of that ridiculous post for me. I'm still laughing at the stupidity of it. You can't just look at stats. Look at CLEE, he had no errors last year at LF. I guess he's a better fielder than Jim Edmonds. Nope, that's wrong. He can't get to as many balls as an Edmonds. Uribe wouldn't be able to get to as many balls for outs as Ozuna at SS. Sad to see you have to depend on others to come up with an argument for you. And Uribe played 2B more than any other position last year. He split time at 3B and SS and not by much. Of course his stats(which is just that) will suggest he's a great SS. I'm still laughing at the stupidity and lack of intellect in your posts.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:57 PM) LOL, so now Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe? I'm not sure I can respond because I'm laughing too hard. Once again, you are dead wrong. Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:58 PM) Leaving Marte in after the botched double play had me heated. That's what I voted for. I'm not as hard on Ozzie as most, but I definitely have a problem with his bullpen management. When Everett came in for Iguchi, I was thinking along the same lines as you are...just hit one to semi-deep to deep left, it doesn't even have to approach the warning track. Iguchi is waaay more likely to line out to an infielder or something along those lines. If people don't agree, that's fine. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, that was my thinking behind the Everett situation. Iguchi is more a line drive person. If Hermy did indeed tell Ozzie he couldn't go, then why was he continuing to warm up after Marte was brought in?

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) He started out as a SS but was moved to 2nd base after he had a wrist injury... http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/021116hampton.html He has also played most of his games in the majors at 2nd base, not SS. But his natural position is SS. Get it through your stubborn head. He's a natural SS. Just because he was moved doesn't mean he isn't a natural SS. Your whole argument was that he isn't a natural SS and with this post, you proved that wrong.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:41 PM) Wrong again. Ozuna is a 2nd baseman by trade. Uribe is a SS by trade. Uribe is best suited for 2B is what I was trying to imply. PK was a catcher, should the Sox consider trading AJ and putting PK at catcher? Didn't think so. Uribe is best suited at the 2B position. If you can't see that, then I suggest you get your eyes check. Ozuna is more of a SS because he has the agility and quickness. Uribe doesn't have that agility of a SS, hence the Sox wanting to leave Uribe at 2B for the most part. Sorry if the trade doesn't note that. I guess Frank Thomas still plays 1B and Scott Hatteberg is still a catcher. And Jose is still a SS.

QUOTE(JimH @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) I will go a step further, Crede and Uribe are here primarily because they play very good defense. Makes sense when you build the team around pitching. Since Konerko and Everett are proven hitters, the offensive expectations are greater for them than Crede and Uribe, and they should be. Crede hits down low in the order and for the most part Uribe does too. They don't expect the same level of offense from Crede/Uribe as Konerko and Everett. They are going to give this more time, and make a move accordingly. But I don't think it'll happen for several weeks. And when it does, I see 2nd tier prospects being traded. Sorry, that post makes too much sense to count in this thread. Automatically disqualified by Jabroni and southsideirish.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) PK and Everett have shown throughout their careers that they can hit. Uribe is here because he's the only true SS on our roster. Crede has never shown that he can be a good hitter in the majors. And PK has shown that he has slumped before badly too and that he can't carry an offense like many people want to believe(which is what we have him trying to do now). Ozuna is the only true SS on this team. Uribe is more of a second baseman, hence KW not really going after a 2B unless it was Iguchi.

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ May 31, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) Ok so let me get this straight, first you question me calling him a liar, then you move on to explain that its ok that he lied because its his MO. Then you question how I could have believed he spoke the truth. Oook then. I said hypothetically speaking if he was leaving for another coaching job which he isn't. Everyone and their parents know that. And all he said was that Detroit would be his last coaching stop. He never said how long he was going to be there at all. Not once did he say that in his press conference he was going to stay there for 5 years. So he did not lie to any Pistons fan. Don't know what part of that isn't understandable.

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ May 31, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) lol, I watch 80% of the ACC basketball games during the year and probably 90% of WF's games that are on TV, I think I know what kind of character he is, trust me. Here are some quotes about him. "He punched me in the groin and the ref saw it," Hodge said, adding that Paul told him after the blow, "I got you now." "The ultra-competitive 6-footer has been in numerous on-court tussles this season -some due to his persistent defensive pressure, others stemming from opponents' efforts to irritate him with physical play." Chris has always taken cheap shots in games and whined to the refs more than any other player in the ACC. Teams do go over the line talking about his grandfathers death, but he has to learn to control his temper better because guys like Gary Payton will eat him up with it. That's different though. The ACC and it's fan are more rabid than NBA fans. Seriously, JJ Reddick getting death threats. Chris Paul having fans chanting "I Killed Your Grandfather" That's f'd up. I think I would be a just a little irritated at that.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) Usually KW jumps the gun so he doesnt have to get into a bidding war with other contenders. Resting your laurels on the fact that we are a first place team, like the twins are so far back that a few losses cant negate that is a myopic view at best. Our pitching has been great. What hasnt been even good, our offense. So where do we upgrade. Crede is the obvious choice. And PK and Everett and Uribe...

Hermy. Everett for Iguchi was a smart move. Everett usually gets the ball deep enough to score in a run. I wasn't concerned with that move at all.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Have those guys ever had a track record of hitting at the major league level. Then close your Crede apologist eyes and ask yourself has Joe Crede outside of a few weeks in April ever hiit at the major league level. Apologist? Wow. I support a player just like I support the rest of the White Sox and if I defend one player you don't like I'm an apologist? I'm glad to see I'm having a grown up discussion here Dye has been breaking down. PK has been s***ty. Put Gload in that spot and he probably has as much RBI's because of Iguchi and Pods(hell, put AJ there and he's within 5). Fact is most of the offense is failing. I'm just seeing Crede being hated on though. I have no problem if Crede is doing crappy and is the only one, but the fact is, he isn't the only one. It's the whole offense minus 3 people and Willie.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:03 PM) I could care less if they trade Crede for Randa or just prospects. As long as we trade for Randa or a 3rd baseman that can hit better than .225 and let Cruddy ride the pine. Then they can decide on what to do with Cruddy after the season is over. Let's also trade PK, Everett, Uribe, and Dye. Because their offense isn't doing good either.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:01 PM) Inferior Glove? I know you are the guy with the Crede's Crew sig and I dont expect anythng but love for Crede but come on. Slight Upgrade? LOL Yes. Randa is solid. He isn't making any spectacular plays at all though on the defensive end. Can he get a ground ball? Yes. Is he going to make a diving catch to his left? No. Crede has that. He's more athletic and could get to more balls than Randa. If you watched both play, you would be able to see that.