nitetrain8601

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:13 PM) If BMac has the talent to be a #3 SP in this league, then he has the talent to pitch in the pen. These guys didn't suck [or do well] because they first pitched in the bullpen. They suck because they can't get guys out/ throw too many meatballs/ give up too many walks. If BMac has the talent most people think he does, then a stint in the bullpen won't hurt him. Haren I believe was the Cards best pitching prospect and he's pretty highly regarded. He's supposed to be a damn good pitcher and he was one coming out of the bullpen last year for the Cards. He was though of as a future #2/#3. I think pitching in the bullpen early in their careers as opposed to staying in the minors and refining their stuff every 5th day has something to do with it.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) well, Cruz has the stuff but he has no control which is a big part, Haren has been the starter for Oakland, Adkins isnt good, Alvarez did pretty good last year doing that, Graves was a good closer last year he just lost his stuff. This is how i like to look at it, Buehrle was used as a RP and so was Garland... And now they are our top 2 pitchers so thats a good sign. As far in the same year of spot starting and bullpen relief, they've all pretty much sucked when they started. Cruz didn't get time to develop his control because of people thinking it was a better idea to just bring him up and leave him in the bullpen at least. Haren has been a starter for Oakland, but he isn't as good as advertised at all. I'm not expecting him to have an ERA of 2 either. He has a 5.19ERA and is 1-6. Adkins isn't good. Alvarez did good, but he's already older. Older guys IMO could deal with it, but not young up and coming pitchers. That's because older pitchers have worked on their stuff and it's as good as it gets. Graves stunk when he started, and sucked last year too IMHO. Ever since he was taken out of the bullpen, that's when he went downhill.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) The numbers themselves are not as important as the separations are. The classes are not of equal value either. Rotation is far more important than the others. The lists give you an idea of where your team stands in comparison to the other contenders. With respect to MIN: 36% better rotation 55% worse workhorse relief 19% worse lineup 66% worse bench 1% better general relief That tells you we can make the best gains by improving our bench & workhorse relief. The addition of Thomas will have the dual effect of improving both the bench & the lineup. Referring to his 2002 RPG ranking of 22. The lineup will lag MIN by only 8% & the bench by 40% (addition of Everett). Which leaves workhorse relief as the biggest need for improvement. The addition of a top 20 player like Wagner would erase the deficit & give the CHW a 20% edge. That should get them the division crown. You should work for the White Sox as a consultant.

Let's get Carlos Lee back and have him play LF. He's doing great today. He also leads the NL in RBI's and hit 2 HR's today already.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) I wouldnt label El Duque as ace... he has been very effective so far but he has been hit pretty hard even with the low era and than an ace has to go more than what 2.2 innings :puke Buehrle and Garland = Aces Garcia, Contreras, and El Duque = solid 2's thats rating them on how they have done on this season so far. I consider him an ace, because he's a stopper. I might have those two mixed up though.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:01 PM) Again, what you or I would like to see happen with Bmac doesn't matter. If he can get outs, he'll stick around. My guess is he'll be able to get outs in the sox bullpen, unless someone goes down to injury. As far as "setting him back a year if he pitches in the bullpen", I don't see how it sets him back. And if BMac sticks with the sox in the pen, the professionals in the sox org. don't see it either. And his fastball is fine. He has 3 solid pitches I'd like to see his fastball get faster unless he starts pulling the strings like Shingo. Well let's hope the Sox organization makes the right decision and puts him back in AAA. Here's two examples of relievers used as spot starters and starting the next year or started that same year that I could think of. Buehrle - Did good Juan Cruz - failed so far Danny Haren - failed so far Jon Adkins - failed so far Wilson Alvarez(though he's already older) - decent, but he's already older; just threw him in there so people don't think I'm trying to be biased Danny Graves - failed I can't think of anymore right now, but so far most of them failed.

Nope. I pass.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 25, 2005 -> 12:55 PM) let him start put JC or OH in pen Why? Contreras is 2-1(lack of run support for the most part) with a 3.23ERA. That's #2 stuff. Hernandez is 5-1 with a 3.91 ERA. There is no point in putting BMac ahead of those guys, especially considering we're not only in the race, we're in first place. Now if BMac was a hitter then I would say let's put him in there. Starting pitching help isn't needed for once.

Zito right now would be a good 3rd starter, but no way is he an ace any more. He's lost it for some reason. Buehrle - Ace Garland - Ace Hernandez - Ace Contreras - #2 Garcia - #2 I think the title ace goes from year to year. Look at Sidney Ponson. He was an "ace" three years back. He's no longer an ace this year and he wasn't one last year. Ace is a title that can be taken from you and given to you in any year.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 12:47 PM) The sox needed Bmac to fill in for El Duque. If Bmac shows he can get major league hitters out [like he did in his 1st start--a tough, tough spot to make his debut in], I don't think the sox will listen to everyone saying send him back down to AAA. The Sox aren't rushing Bmac. Rushing him would have meant starting in CHI instead of AAA. And he's coming on at his own pace. Yes, but not for an extended period of time. It was just supposed to be a 2 game thing at most. Bmac got a below average offense out. Let's see him when he faces a Yankee lineup(similar to what Neal Cotts went through a couple of years ago) and see if his s*** isn't shaken. I could understand if one of our starters has been doing piss poor, but we have the best starting staff in the league and I doubt that BMac could do any better than what our starting staff is doing now(as in ERA and wins which is all that matters). I'd like to see him develop one more pitch in triple A and get his fastball together, else you're just setting him a year back if you have him pitch in the pen this year.

que?

From what I saw on Monday, I still can't say which one I rather have. McCarthy dominated a piss poor hitting club. Ervin dominated a piss poor hitting club. Based on pure stuff and from what I've heard, I rather have Santana. His fastball is 98, not 94. He has a slider with alot of bite. His changeup is also pretty decent, but I would like to see him develop a sinker or curve, else he's just a closer with nasty stuff and a starter with above average stuff(aka 3rd or 4th starter). I think Santana will become a Vazquez/Burnett type while McCarthy will become a Buehrle/Garland(the good Garland where he attacks hitters and basically tells the opposing team, "here's my pitch, hit it if you can"). Pure stuff - Santana A pitcher who's more ready - McCarthy

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 12:29 PM) His future is as a SP. But with 5 solid SP's, his present could be in the pen. BMac can get outs at the major league level. That's why the sox look like they'll keep him around. It looks like they don't think Bmac's future will be harmed by having him pitch in the pen. BTW, didn't Bronson Arroyo do pretty well in the Red sox pen last year, and it didn't hurt his development as a SP? Bronson was a starter last year after the first month of the season because Derek Lowe was sucking big balls and Wakefield became injury prone. And there's a difference, the Red Sox needed Bronson. The White Sox don't need BMac right now. Why rush him up to do mop up duty?? I rather have him pitch in triple a and let him start, learn how to get out of jams, refine his pitches even more and allow him to become an ace. We need to stop rushing pitchers. Let them come at their own pace.

Haha, I'm actually happy. It's nice to see someone not give a damn about Wrigley or give a damn about learning the proper name of it. I would've prefered him call it "s***-Dump Field" or "Urinal Stadium"

It's horribly bad. I think that's why it's funny though.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ May 25, 2005 -> 11:02 AM) I think putting BMac in the bullpen would be a travishamockery of major proportions....AKA, not a big fan of this idea.. It does fall in line with alot of our young pitcher mismanagement of the past decade or so...we love to put pitchers in positions to fail. I agree. It goes along with bringing up spot starters from AAA on the day of the game(Felix Diaz a couple of times) instead of bringing them up at least the day before so he could get proper rest.

Let's go with a 6-man rotation I think we should sent McCarthy down. I rather not see him get spot duties. I rather see him pitch every 5 days. I'm not willing to trade Contreras to get a rookie up here. Especially with Contreras doing so well. The amount of innings BMac would get in Charlotte is way more than he would get here. At least wait until we're way in front or way in back of the race. McCarthy needs innings. I'm not willing to give up an "insurance policy" and put him in the bullpen. I rather just have him stretched out and ready. He'll get his shot. I rather just see our regular rotation go at it. Don't let your affection for a player get in the way of a rotation that is producing. Ask yourself this. Is BMac going to do any better than Freddy G, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, or Hernandez is doing now??? I would say no. Keep him down there. Let him develop into something special.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ May 25, 2005 -> 10:24 AM) I always refer to him as a left-handed Greg Maddux. I think he is too.

Garland is AN Ace this year. So is El Duque and Buehrle for us. Contreras and Garcia have been #2 pitchers. Yes guys, it's possible to have more than 1 ace on your staff. Garland at least is turning into one. Hell, I really don't give a damn. They're both on our team, so I support them both.

QUOTE(Wedge @ May 25, 2005 -> 09:20 AM) No, this is a very good article. It raises a bunch of concerns to me, and it uses the Skiles situation as a good back-drop for the Ozzie situation. Does anybody know why the Skiles situation hasn't been settled yet? Money. It will get done it's just the Bulls are trying to squeeze out the best deal possible because at one point last year they were paying for three coaching contracts(Floyd, Cartwright, Skiles). They just want to make sure that he didn't have a fluke season and protect themselves. Skiles actually doesn't want as much money as I thought he would. He's asking for around the average.

I have countless times. My little brother always was given the key because he got home earlier. So I let him use my key since he lost his and was in a hurry. He forgot it at school and we were both screwed big time. I eventually had to cut a hole through the bathroom screen and jimmy the window.

I love this. So many people were ripping me for supporting him in the chat. I just want Crede to continue as he was tonight.

Okay, why discuss a trade that isn't even true. If it was a guy like Kn Rosenthal or at least someone from ESPN reporting it, then I would say this thread is okay, but it's completely baseless.

Wait, is there any substantial evidence that this is a true rumor and not some rumor started by some guy on the mlb.com boards that Mac, Jurko, and Harry just started to pick up.

I would like to see Willie play more. I think him and Ozuna should be the super subs of this team.