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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:50 PM) Jansen and Turner had larger offers? I thought the Dodgers also threw the most money out there. While Heyward technically signed for less money, the potential to opt out in 3 years gave him the potential to earn more money if he signed with the Cubs instead of the Cardinals. Obviously, that didn't work out his way, but I don't think that's the best example. Jansen was reportedly offered more by the Nats, and I've heard over and over that Turner could have gotten more. The market wasn't great but 4 for 52 or whatever was cheap. And maybe that's true, but sox would have same opportunity. Heyward made a big deal about hwo he didn't choose the best offer, though. edit: turner was 4 for 64.

So notably: -Kenley Janson signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market?) - Justin Turner signed with Dodgers for less money (returning team or big market) - Jason Heyward signed with Cubs for less money (...big market?) - Dexter Fowler signed with Cards for most money - Yo Cespedes is up for debate. - Chapman went to Yanks for most money ...It happens but...it sure seems like some of the bigger franchises have been getting discounts despite it being incredibly perverse

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:39 AM) Any chance we could do a heavily front-loaded deal with an opt out after a few years? I 100% believe he will try to double dip on his terms. As much as people say 400 is gonna happen, I think 10 for 350 with the first 5 years paying 200 million with a player optout is highly likely.

To clarify, while I don't believe in the long-term doom and gloom over parity in MLB, I do think we have seen some NBA-ification in the MLB where players are going to the richest teams even as they aren't offering the best money, but just because they know they will be relevant during the contract and they were CLOSE ENOUGH.

While people say he'll take the best offer, it's easy for me to foresee a scenario where teams like the Phillies and Cardinals offer the most money, but he opts to go to the Yankees lesser offer that keeps them under the luxury tax to be more competitive. So yes, I do think there is a competitive tier we can be in that will rely on some je nais sai quois that could be involved in influencing, including locking down another big 2018 free agent before him. But still not in favor of this trade! I just think the whole "he'll take best offer" isn't necessarily accurate after the way we've seen the last few years shake out.

Only nubs (and ND) fans can make me root for an OSU fan in an argument.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:16 AM) Maybe they'll tell him he can shred one uniform he doesn't like, and if he re-signs he can bring his kid to work once a week.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:15 AM) If it was a Cuban player, I would say they might be on to something. This just seems insane Remember with A-rod they offered a rumored 10 yrs 190 or something right? It seems that experience led them to believe that if Arod had been on the 2000 white sox he would have accepted at that reasonable deal and never let Boras do the extra fake team leverage with the Rangers to lead him to 10 years 220. This isn't my thought process but it's what I think they must be thinking. If he likes you and you give him truly close to market value he may not do the max leverage, exhausting FA cycle that they don't want to get into.

QUOTE (Soha @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:45 AM) The Cardinals are probably the best case scenario for Sox fans. For starters, it sticks it to the Cubs a bit. But even better, there seems to be a growing trend of players not wanting to sign in St. Louis longterm. That probably increases the chance that he doesn't re-sign during the season....thus keeping alive our true hope of the Sox signing him next winter. A-ha! Yes, this is exactly why I've been wanting the cardinals too.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) Keep in mind the White Sox sign far more free agents that have never played for them, then traded for guys a year away "to see the culture" and then signed them. Freddy Garcia is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, and he had extenuating circumstances. My best guess is it's experiences like Jose Contreras too, where they came from the big market marque clubs and then had a more satisfying experience with white sox and now are ambassadors. Even though they didn't sign, maybe they think that anecdotal evidence from former players makes them have that opinion.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:31 AM) I'm almost against the concept. I guess you could talk me out of Adams maybe? On the grounds of you could get more than that at the deadline even if he has a rough first half like he had last year, but even someone like that is an expensive risk. But seriously I really dislike this as an idea. You're spending $17 million and giving up players for the imaginary idea that he'll do something other than take the best offer made to him on the FA market next year when he's worked hard to get to the point where he can cash in on the best deal? The entire idea sounds like Malarkey to me. Assuming Sox could offer something close to market value, or at least within 10% of it, what percentage do we think having Machado here for a year increases his likelihood of accepting our deal over others? I can't imagine it's more than 15% increase in the likelihood. So what would I pay for that 15% increase? It's real low. It's like Bernardo Flores low. Which is completely unfair to Baltimore because I'm not paying them at all for his 2018 production, which means essentially nothing.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 10:08 PM) Black Thought is decent at freestyling http://www.hot97.com/news/funk-flex/legend...funk-flex-video That was great.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/941689422109659136 Dang. Pretty sure we are only going to go after the bullpen scraps left in january.

Anyone in a weird in-between where they don't want this deal to happen but also love baseball trades and so you find yourself rooting for a trade even though you dread it? Anyway. Can the cards just please take this to the finish line?

It was actually pretty nuts how well the bullpen did in mid-august through september considering the talent. Infante/Minaya ended up being acceptable and Bummer turned it around. At least with infante...that seems unsustainable. The only help we may be getting as of now is Veiera? At least in 2019 we are talking about Jones and Burdi back. It's another reason why I'm just kinda shocked they didn't get a bullpen arm in rule 5.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) A part of me thinks that the Yankees have the best offer on the table for Machado but the Orioles don't want to trade him to the Yankees. It was reported the Cardinals didn't want to trade 2 of their arms to grab him. Is it entirely possible Hahn sent a low-ball offer (not including Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Hansen, Cease nor top position players) to the Orioles for Machado and it's actually being considered? Remember that their GM isn't really the smartest. Could also explain why Hahn was surprised that their offer was reported as the best. Their GM is smart, he has to deal with really stupid constraints and demands of the owner.

Man Nightengale is making a damn fool of himself. Every report contradicts his previous one.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:56 PM) The O's are fairly pathetic. Why worry about what the Yankees will do? Maybe we trade him at the deadline. So beat them. Isnt that what this sport is about? Hard when you have an owner like that. I like Dan Duquette and he’s done a great job, but man they are an obnoxious franchise. I’m probably missing some team, but he’s the worst owner now right?

QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:51 PM) I think what Nightengale is saying now is probably truth as he mentioned earlier the Sox officials were surprised they had the best offer. My joke about being the guys in a fantasy auction who bid on a player and then panic when nobody else bids turned out to be eerily accurate.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:50 PM) FWIW, he had a slow start last year and at the deadline his OPS was only .751. It was .829 over the final 2 months. I bet they could trade Manny Machado for more than a Yolmer Sanchez even if he’s hitting a .700 OPs

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:46 PM) Nightengale is losing what little credibility he had. Seemingly every other hour, he comes out with a new report that contradicts his previous one. From what I understand, not including Nightengale, it's between us and the Cardinals (with Philadelphia as a long shot), we didn't offer Kopech or anyone of his caliber, and Machado could very well be traded in the next 24 hours. Reading nightengale feed is like watching someone calling their own reflection in the mirror an idiot.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) All the self workout pics? No those are fine, mainly the index finger to the chin, look left look right selfies. All worth it for the occasional grainy video of a video tape of him from cuba hitting a home run 3 years ago.

Really impressed by the commitment to the white sox to be following Nicky Delmonico's instagram feed. Luis Robert's nearly caused me to delete the whole app.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:41 PM) Does Anderson have any experience in CF? Sometimes when he chased a shallow fly ball he would end up there. Not show how it translates.

They have streaks under hoiberg of looking really good but it's usually just a few hot 3pt shooting nights. Dunn is fine but their depth is still terrible in the backcourt and wings so I still think they will not be close to playoffs.