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I would not trade Nick Madrigal for Alex Colome.

The best baseball organizations are not waiting for players to ask for basic information, they are proactively creating plans to get better. Yes, some are more receptive. In this case, a player who was receptive was bad at it, but didn't know it or what it was, and the sox didn't care he didn't know about it or else would have made it a point of his plan. Or as you call it, "player development".

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cubs/ct-spt-cubs-willson-contreras-20190402-story.html White Sox player development relies on hoping players overhear tips from organizations that aren't bad at it:

Organizations should be able to afford to work on maximizing skills even if they are short term. But if you don't value framing then you are basically removing flowers as an example of a developed catcher by the white sox. The worst framing catcher is better now at framing than the worst framing catcher in 2009. That saves runs regardless of the fact that he is still the worst. The sox should strive for more than "better than we used to be, but still worse than the rest of the league".

It is a teachable skill. That doesn't mean they are good at teaching it. After all, Castillo learned it, then got here and got way worse. It's almost like they aren't really focused on it! I am not responding to the second argument because that isn't my argument, but your argument around Omar Narvaez was quite literally players either have it or they don't, and mine was that if you could take him from worst defensive catcher to less bad it was very valuable. Not make him worst defensive catcher to best, just degrees of improvement. So it's cool you refined your point to agree with me.

Mike Montgomery

He'll go by Torque.

I wouldn't really apply macro trend pieces to the micro level. Nobody is suggesting a swing change with Vaughn, but yes, Vandy is a wonderful program, who on average probably gives their players the tools that will offer the best chance to improve in college and get drafted. They improve players odds but plenty of players will get drafted out of programs that are terrible for the pros like Virginia.

I would really like Walston.

When we are discussing Flowers value we are talking about framing almost exclusively. Considering they didn't value it as seen by their replacements for the next several years, and that framing only started to come up around in popular blogs as of 2013, I think it's likely that this is just something that he picked up on and happened to be good at. He wasn't good at blocking, he wasn't particularly good at throwing runners out, he was very good at framing. In 2015, Flowers last year with the white sox: Framing Runs: 19.2 (3rd) Blocking Runs: -2.8 (107th) Throwing Runs: -.6 (98th) FRAA_ADJ: 15.1 (8th best in majors) In 2017, two years later with braves: Framing Runs: 32 (1st) Blocking runs: -.8 (90th) Throwing Runs: -1.1 (102nd) FRAA_ADJ: 30.1 (3rd) Let's check out Welington Castillo 2017 Framing Runs: 6.8 (18th) Blocking Runs: 1.3 (16th) Throwing Runs: 3.2 (3rd) FRAA_ADJ: 12.4 (9th) 2019 Framing Runs: -3.5 (81st out of 85) Blocking Runs: -1 (73rd) Throwing Runs: 0 (69th) FRAA_ADJ: -4.7 (82nd out of 85) Omar Narvaez 2018 FRAA_ADJ: -15.7 (117th out of 117th) Omar Narvaez 2017 FRAA_ADJ: -2.1 (71st out of 85)

His splits against righties were actually better than mccann's before the season. He just straight up sucks now. He was mysteriously much better at framing/defense in his last year in baltimore then got here and evaporated despite our strong player development for catchers.

ugh, Eric's chats are so terrible. His personality doesn't translate at all to chat and it comes off as really dismissive. they should have Dan Szym sit down with him to show him how to do it.

I'm not offering my own opinion, I was giving you a rundown of what the feeling is among the mlb pipeline, BA, fangraphs types. I can't claim to know how to scout these dudes.

actually 23. Castillo is one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball and bad defensively It will be hard for him to be a positive player without a big turnaround.

well, 24.

brad nj 12:45 why do people keep saying the big 6 hitters, isn't adams little to no power? Eric A Longenhagen 12:46 no, he's added mass and has at least average raw now. It isn't playing in games yet because he has a contact-oriented approach, but he's not a weakling. Adams very likely means Abrams

I enjoy LARRR straddling the line that player development doesn't matter and also that the white sox should receive ample credit for any player development success story. One that they believed in so much that they non-tendered them.

the top tier is most often considered Rutschman Witt Vaughn/Bleday/Abrams/Green With Law its Rutschman/Witt/Vaughn then dropoff Others mention a "top 6" which includes Rutschman, Witt, Vaughn, Bleday and Green before a dropoff, mostly as identifying those six as the top hitters, and then the teams behind may go any number of ways.

The one thing about throwing hampton/ealy in with Abrams is it really discounts Abrams safety in his hit tool, whereas hampton and ealy you are dealing with swing and miss and in ealy's case some maxed out physical projection (though that feels like it was way overrated for alek thomas). What I don't like about the draft discussion this year is it feels like people can see vaughn in competition and can easily transform that to imagining him in the big leagues. And with Rutschman, the 2 weeks of Bishop love, and Bleday, but with Abrams we just see a lot of "well he's just a fast high school guy". I think Law's really aggressive promotion of Vaughn has made me rate Vaughn ahead of Abrams, and I'm really hard pressed to even pass on Greene. But if we drafted abrams, hampton, fletcher/kelly that would be such an insane infusion of upside athleticism to the org that desperately needs it beyond Robert. But it also lacks big bats. It lacks power arms, but also lacks big strike throwers. It lacks a lot of elite tools now so I just want to make sure they get some. Just no college outfielder that isn't Misner in round 2.

Uncharitably, I feel like there is an unspoken org rule to make sure to only bring in guys that are "part of the family" and won't try to shake the boat in a way that would make others look bad.

Spot, yes, I think he has a spot here through our contending years. Starter role, only on a rebuilding club.

Getz came up through the Sox system, as did Jirschele. Getz had minimal experience with Royals player dev dept. Though they may be smart and interested in doing it the right way, Id prefer they added some people who had come from orgs familiar with the newer techniques. It isn't required, but it would give me more confidence.

Hostetler seems to enjoy being secretive so much I really doubt he'd drop that Maine hint, which is so obvious, if the sox felt they were higher on him than other teams and he was a priority. He'd be a very exciting 3rd round pick. This board does a really good job of picking out the interesting guys before the draft and honestly the hit rate is better on the board picks than we'd expect. RIP Jakson REETZ

I don't really think so. I don't think his value is that high, I don't think you cry even if he leaves. You just be happy that the sox developed a competent player internally that is valuable depth moving forward. Like, of course you look to upgrade over Leury, but he's also not someone you cut to get a AAA guy a look unless they are a top prospect.

Yeah I don't think that's a bad plan, I think what I'm coming around to is I want him to stay regardless of his offense, so long as it is respectable for a catcher.