Rowand44

Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm. Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing. We had 6 bullpen arms that were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz. Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year. If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) First, I'm sure you mean Garland, not Garcia. As I said in a PM recently, I honestly liked the health of the Sox franchise better 24 hours ago than I do right now. Flash....I don't think that Arizona is going to pay any of Vazquez's deal. KW is really, really overpaying here. The article that says Viz was in the deal also states we're getting money back. Flash, why are you so quick to bash Kenny? You did this at the deadline too, let him do his thing.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) I'm not sure if I'm joking or not, but it wouldn't shock me if Ozzie has plans on bringing Urbina to the Sox if the charges get dropped. Interesting thought.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:09 AM) I doubt I'm the only one happy to get rid of Duque and Viz. They were clearly out two worst pitchers that we sent out to the mound on a consistent basis. And might I be the first in this thread to say that Baj shouldn't be considered a legit fill-in for our bullpen holes. He's shown nothing at the MLB level to suggest he can be a quality reliever. Damaso was worse then Viz imo. Viz was solid, nothing spectacular but he was a nice guy to have at the end of your bullpen. Kenny ain't done now, I'm sure he's going to find ways to upgrade the pen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:01 AM) No surprise there, as Vizcaino was rumored to possibly be traded to Arizona last season. I'm not too worried about losing Viz. Viz was solid, he was some nice added depth. This helps make the money issue a little closer that's probably why he was tossed in. I think this just about guarantees that Jon won't be traded unless it's for extra pitching. Brandon will need to be in the pen now.

This trade just got much worse. According to Newsday, the Diamondbacks will receive Luis Vizcaino along with Chris Young and Orlando Hernandez from the White Sox for Javier Vazquez.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Yeah, something about it makes all breaking stuff less effective. That's why when McCarthy's curve was working well last year in ST, people were raving about him. Thin air.

Garland for Ichiro, all done.

QUOTE(letsgoarow @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:01 AM) i just read on cbs.sportsline that it is now el duque for vaz and that would be sweet ass Where on cbssportsline? Link it.

For the record my dad called this, kind of. He called me a few days ago to ask me what the sox traded Hernandez for getting him confused with Damaso.

Jon Garland for Aaron Rowand.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) They just dealt for Romero so he's not being traded. They'll never deal Figgins. He'll probably man CF while McPherson gets 3B this year. I agree, I'm just throwing crap out there.

Garland for Figgins and Romero, there all done.

Buehrle to the bullpen anyone? There's our 2nd lefty. I'm joking by the way.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:30 AM) I know he pitched and got bombed in Game 7 of the ALCS. It wasn't pretty, I'm pretty sure he got nailed in the DS as well.

QUOTE(kman @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:28 AM) oh thanks for reasurring me man. I do what I can.

mlb.com is just reporting the Duke and Young so that 2nd pitcher might not even be included.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:20 AM) Actually, the deals had Young and Cotts rumored to be in it. Neal isn't going anywhere, I promise.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:18 AM) Well, besides for the trade deadline when all he got us was G. Blum. What a waste he was. Agreed. ::Awaits people ragging on fathom for not knowing he was being sarcastic::

Well one thing we can all agree on: There is never a boring day with Kenny at the helm.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:15 AM) Quick note: there were rumblings earlier that Arizona was trying to get Cotts included in the deal. Please don't do that KW! No chance my friend, stop spewing your negativity.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:11 AM) Maybe someone should try to find a picture of Ozzie and Abreu golfing together last week?

Has Kenny broke the record yet for trades in a 5 year time table?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:04 AM) Its too bad Edmonds isn't a few years younger cause I'd suggest a deal for him (with one of the starters) cause you know the Cards are looking for pitching. Also, just want to say, doesn't this still leave open the possibility of a Garland for Abreu deal or something along those lines as well (if the Sox wanted to get crazy with payroll). Plus considering they are getting Duque off the books, it wouldn't be a huge increase in Abreu (just saying this name cause everyone's been talking about him over the off-season). I know you're just throwing that out there but then again Scotty in center.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:58 PM) I will say this, our MLB club is to me stronger on paper this year than last (doesn't mean s*** though cause injuries and a lack of meeting your potential or being hot at the right time always come into account) but our farm system is weaker (however we got good value for our guys, imo). Agreed here, right now our major league club is much stronger imo on paper but like you said that means nothing. Getting to the farm, we'll basically have this whole ballclub back next year as well so that will give us some time to replenish the farm and add pieces when needed in 08. It's very interesting though what Kenny is doing.