Rowand44

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:54 PM) Well, now that Viz is gone, I see Dotel as KW's next target. Jas called that one. Could be, that's a definite possibility.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) I can't believe you didnt have a Viz sig. Ha, well I'm not the only cursed one. Willie had gio and Young as his AAP's.

I was a little sad getting rid of viz but to be honest it won't be that hard to find a suitable replacement for him.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) HIS AGE DOESNT f***ING MATTER ^^^ His age means squat to us if he's not here come next year. If you can trade from a strength to make the team better then....DUH.

Miguel Tejada is a f***in stud but trading Brandon is just a no no for me and even for Miggy. If we can somehow put together a package with Garland and Uribe and make it work then I'd be all for it.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) If KW now turns around and trades 18-game winner 26-year old Jon Garland then he will have made things worse. Jon Garlands age right now means absolutely nothing to us. It's fantastic that he's 26 but he's a goner after next year anyways so it does not matter how old he is.

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:20 PM) Getting mine 13 game plan.. Am I correct to assume that we are passing out the rings on Tuesday and not the Sunday Game? Correct.

For the record Joe Crede is not a fa after next season, I'm not sure how that rumor got started but it's definitely spread.

Adding that 8 mill is absolutely huge so that makes things a lot better. You definitely have to wait and see now to see what other things happen cause this could have a trickle down effect. Whether you like the trade or not I can't believe anyone would say they lost faith in KW after this move, especially when Vazquez hasn't even taken the field for us and Young hasn't played above AA ball. If Coop and AJ(don't forget how aj can help pitchers) can do there thing we could have 3 years of a younger Jose Contreras, just think about that for a little while. Overall, I'm torn on the deal a little bit cause I want to see what else happens but I got complete faith in Kenny.

I'm pretty sure Eischen is still under Nats control. EDIT: Maybe not, I see he has a protected contract yet he's listed as a FA so I'm not sure. He's definitely a guy I'd like to look at if he's available. Ok, he's still on the 40 man roster of the Nats so he's not a fa. Problem solved.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:52 AM) The sox AA and high a teams were among the best teams in their leagues. Don't they have players that could help in 2007, 2008? Broadway, Lumsden, Liotta, Tracey(though I'm not high on him) just to name a few. This whole team is virtually together through 07, by 08 we'll have plenty of prospects on the verge. It all makes sense if you think about it and Kenny's 3 year board that he always talks about.

Awesome news, steff. I'm glad to hear it.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:07 AM) The Score also just reported at 3:00 A.M. that we are receiving money from the Diamondbacks in the deal. Did they speculate as to how much?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:02 AM) whereas undervaluing our own talent. I think it's more of a case that some of us over value our prospects then Kenny undervaluing them. Kenny hasn't made a trade in forever that has come back to bite us in the ass.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:36 AM) See, that's where we have our differences. You think Garland stays....I don't think there's a chance in hell he's on the White Sox next season. Thus, your scenario has McCarthy in the pen, which is a real asset. However, I think McCarthy will be in the starting rotation, and our bullpen will be weaker. I also highly doubt Baj has impressed Ozzie enough to make the roster. I know it's a short stint he's had, but Ozzie's the type of guy to form an impression based on a short period. To be honest fathom, I don't know what to expect anymore.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:30 AM) Yeah, I fixed that problem. Typed too quickly and didn't bother to proofread before I posted. I'll hold out hope the financial details of the trade have yet to be released. We didn't know Vizcaino was included until nearly two hours after intitial news surfaced. If Arizona truly isn't paying ANY portion of Vazquez's deal, then Williams deserves to be heavily criticized. World Series or not, you still have to be a sensible general manager. EDIT: I didn't notice the link posted above by SSH. Until the exact figures are released, I'll hold judgement. You wanted him to be criticized after the deadline as well for only trading for Blum and we all know how that turned out. Just let the guy do his thing, no offense flash but I think he knows a little bit more then you and I. You even said before you wouldn't judge any of Kenny's moves before knowing what comes after, yet you seem already to jump all over him for this. You seem to like bashing him for some reason.

Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm. Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing. We had 6 bullpen arms that were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz. Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year. If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:23 AM) First, I'm sure you mean Garland, not Garcia. As I said in a PM recently, I honestly liked the health of the Sox franchise better 24 hours ago than I do right now. Flash....I don't think that Arizona is going to pay any of Vazquez's deal. KW is really, really overpaying here. The article that says Viz was in the deal also states we're getting money back. Flash, why are you so quick to bash Kenny? You did this at the deadline too, let him do his thing.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) I'm not sure if I'm joking or not, but it wouldn't shock me if Ozzie has plans on bringing Urbina to the Sox if the charges get dropped. Interesting thought.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:09 AM) I doubt I'm the only one happy to get rid of Duque and Viz. They were clearly out two worst pitchers that we sent out to the mound on a consistent basis. And might I be the first in this thread to say that Baj shouldn't be considered a legit fill-in for our bullpen holes. He's shown nothing at the MLB level to suggest he can be a quality reliever. Damaso was worse then Viz imo. Viz was solid, nothing spectacular but he was a nice guy to have at the end of your bullpen. Kenny ain't done now, I'm sure he's going to find ways to upgrade the pen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:01 AM) No surprise there, as Vizcaino was rumored to possibly be traded to Arizona last season. I'm not too worried about losing Viz. Viz was solid, he was some nice added depth. This helps make the money issue a little closer that's probably why he was tossed in. I think this just about guarantees that Jon won't be traded unless it's for extra pitching. Brandon will need to be in the pen now.

This trade just got much worse. According to Newsday, the Diamondbacks will receive Luis Vizcaino along with Chris Young and Orlando Hernandez from the White Sox for Javier Vazquez.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Yeah, something about it makes all breaking stuff less effective. That's why when McCarthy's curve was working well last year in ST, people were raving about him. Thin air.

Garland for Ichiro, all done.

QUOTE(letsgoarow @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:01 AM) i just read on cbs.sportsline that it is now el duque for vaz and that would be sweet ass Where on cbssportsline? Link it.