Why does everyone want to dump Jon Garland?

[VAfan]

Over and over I read these posts tossing off a trade of Jon Garland as if it would be a good thing for the White Sox. I don't get it.

 

Jon Garland won 18 games for the Sox last year, tied for the 5th most wins in MLB. The next best Sox pitcher won 16.

 

His ERA was 3.50, 21st in baseball. Only Mark Buehrle bested this (3.12, 11th).

 

His WHIP was 1.17, 12th in baseball, and best on the Sox. Even Mark Buehrle couldn't match that.

 

He pitched 221 innings, 20th in baseball. Mark Buehrle, at 236, and Freddy Garcia, at 228, bested this slightly.

 

He threw 3 complete game shutouts. Only Buehrle threw even a single shutout, with one.

 

His complete game against the Angels may have been the best pitched game by any of our starters in the postseason (it was a fair match for Buehrle's 1-run complete game in game 2).

 

He is 26 years old. Buehrle is 6 months older. Garcia is 29. Contreras is 34. Vasquez is the same age as Garcia.

 

And he did all this in large part because he finally learned to speed up his delivery and throw strikes, emulating Mark Buehrle very well in the process. AJ Pierzynski also helped by calling an aggressive game.

 

So now that Garland has apparently turned the corner on his career (do you want to see what Kevin Brown did after he got it? - from 27-34 he won 122 games, even though he was hurt two of those years), why do so many Sox fans on this board (and the other boards) just want to dump him????

 

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here. In the next 6 years, I think Jon Garland will win more games than any current starter on the Sox' staff, including Mark Buehrle (though it will be very close). The guy is a solid pitcher. Why would anyone want to let him go, much less push him out the door??

[WHarris1]

HIS AGE DOESNT f***ING MATTER

[AnthraxFan93]

Buy Low, Sell HIgh.. And the fact that if AJ Burnett gets 55mil What you think Garland going to get in the FA market.. Get something for him while his stock is high.

[Kalapse]

If KW does not believe you can reach an agreement on a long term deal with Garland. Then Jon should be moved to fill other needs on the team. We have a surplus of staring pitching and moving one SP will not cripple the team.

[Felix]

Garland is expendable, just as Rowand was. We have a better person waiting to start in his spot (McCarthy), and Jon wasn't going to be in Chicago in 2007 anyway, so trading him now makes sense.

[WHarris1]

Garland has had one year and other than that he was perfectly average, sell him high

Edited December 14, 2005 by WHarris1

[Sox It To Em]

Because we have six starters so somebody has to go, Garland's value is at an all-time high, and he doesn't want to say here much longer anyway, so we may as well get something for him now.

Edited December 14, 2005 by whitesoxfan13

[Rowand44]

HIS AGE DOESNT f***ING MATTER

^^^ His age means squat to us if he's not here come next year. If you can trade from a strength to make the team better then....DUH.

[Soxbadger]

Why get rid of Garland?

 

I can think of $55million reasons.

 

The reality is, I wanted to stick with Garland because I felt he would eventually turn the corner and become a good pitcher. This year he did turn the corner, and he proved that he can be a top of the rotation pitcher. But he is not a dominant #1, and when you watch him pitch many games he still gets dangerously close to giving up that one huge inning.

 

Now as for why to trade him now?

 

It is mainly based on speculation. I believe that the White Sox have tried to get a contract extension done with Garland. I believe that Garland has basically said that he is not going to resign and will test the free agent market. If Garland tests the free agent market and has any sort of success this year, he will definitely not be in the White Sox price range.

 

Thus if you believe that Garland is going to be good to great, the White Sox need to trade him now, or at the All-Star break, unless they can get him resigned.

 

If you believe that Garland will regress, then now is the best time to trade him as well. Garland will almost undoubtedly get Matt Morris money, which means even if he pitches average, the White Sox are going to have to pay over $8mil a year. Garland has made no suggestion that the White Sox are the team he wants to be with or play with, so there is no reason to believe we will be getting discounts.

 

With the addition of Vazquez, Garland is arguably the White Sox 3rd to 5th starter. If the White Sox can move Garland to get a great offensive talent, the White Sox can vastly improve their offense, while still having depth at pitching.

 

Just because the Red Sox and Yankees did not break the bank this year, does not mean they wont next year. Pitching prices are insane, and if you cant resign him before FA, you might as well get more than type A compensation.

 

SB

[Balta1701]

Jon Garland is an incredible pitcher. I don't want to dump him. Given infinite salary...He'd be the #2 guy I would resign to a contract extension, right behind MB.

 

However, if Jon Garland cannot be kept, right now through a trade he can obtain us some incredibly valuable pieces - think about what Beane got for Hudson and Mulder. If we lose him as a Free Agent, we will get draft picks. However, right now, if we find a trading partner, he can get us potentially top-tier, All-star talent. Compared with losing Garland for draft picks, that is a much better option.

 

If we could resign Garland at a fair price right now...do it. If he'll sign for what Burnett got, Hell I'd do that too. But I think he would expect more, given his performance last year, and I doubt he'd resign now without wanting to first test the FA market to see what he could get, a-la Konerko.

 

We took a big risk in potentially losing Konerko for draft picks. We can't take that risk with every one of these guys. We have to get something for them.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

He doesn't want to be here long term, and if he does, he'll have to prove it with a lighter bank account. Just be thankful he had his breakout in 05 rather than in 06 where we would be caught with our pants down. Now we have an opportunity to be proactive rather than reactive

[nitetrain8601]

Jon Garland is an incredible pitcher.  I don't want to dump him.  Given infinite salary...He'd be the #2 guy I would resign to a contract extension, right behind MB.

 

However, if Jon Garland cannot be kept, right now through a trade he can obtain us some incredibly valuable pieces - think about what Beane got for Hudson and Mulder.  If we lose him as a Free Agent, we will get draft picks.  However, right now, if we find a trading partner, he can get us potentially top-tier, All-star talent.  Compared with losing Garland for draft picks, that is a much better option.

 

If we could resign Garland at a fair price right now...do it.  If he'll sign for what Burnett got, Hell I'd do that too.  But I think he would expect more, given his performance last year, and I doubt he'd resign now without wanting to first test the FA market to see what he could get, a-la Konerko.

 

We took a big risk in potentially losing Konerko for draft picks.  We can't take that risk with every one of these guys.  We have to get something for them.

 

Bingo, I like Garland alot, but if you know you won't be able to keep him and you have a surplus of starting ipitching, then deal him for a fair deal.

[WHarris1]

Jon Garland is an incredible pitcher? Hmm, he may be in a few years but that's quite the claim.

[Soxfest]

Because his value will not be higher and he is NOT worth what the market will bear to him as far as the White Sox are concerned.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Soxfest

[Rex Kickass]

I don't wanna see him go in the offseason. If this is his walk year, he can be an enormous help to us in the first half and we can get a lot for him to fill any holes that we might have come June 20 or so.

 

I'd love to see him stay in the uniform - but if he doesn't want to lock up a long term deal now - I say he's on the block. I want good pitching, but I want that good pitching to say with us for years to come, not just one more year.

[VAfan]

What gets me is that most of you fans think Jon Garland is a mediocre pitcher. He was clearly better than Freddie Garcia last year, better than Jose Contreras over the whole year, and won more games than our most consistent pitcher, Mark Buehrle.

 

If he makes any kind of improvement a year after getting it - and that is why AGE MATTERS, at 26 I would expect him to continue to make some significant improvements in his ability to locate his pitches - then he has the potential to be the most consistent pitcher on the current Sox staff over the next 6 years.

 

You know, the Cubs decided they couldn't match what Greg Maddux wanted, either. I'm not saying that Garland is Greg Maddux. But now that Garland has vaulted himself into the top-20 pitchers in baseball, I expect he will stay there into his early 30's at least. And look how many division titles Maddux helped the Braves win.

 

You can't convince me that Javier Vazquez, Freddie Garcia, Jose Contreras, or Brandon McCarthy are going to be as consistent over the next 6 years as Jon Garland. Mark Buehrle, yes. The rest? No. So why cast our lot with second-tier guys and heap nothing but scorn on the guy who was essentially tied for being our best pitcher last year. (Win shares: Buehrle 23, Garland 22.)

 

And everyone assumes that Garland can't be re-signed. I don't buy that either. He rejected the Sox first offer. So what? Until arbitration arrives, I'm sure he'll be willing to talk about a deal.

[WHarris1]

Since wins are everything.

 

I take Freddy, Mark, Jose over Garland anyday of the week.

[WHarris1]

then he has the potential to be the most consistent pitcher on the current Sox staff over the next 6 years. 

 

And everyone assumes that Garland can't be re-signed.  I don't buy that either.  He rejected the Sox first offer.  So what?  Until arbitration arrives, I'm sure he'll be willing to talk about a deal.

Too bad we only have him for one more.

 

And no, contract extension talks with Garland are basically f***ed.

[RME JICO]

No one is taking away anything that Jon did in 2005, he had a great year, and was a huge part in the Sox winning the WS.

 

The problem is KW is planning for 2006 and beyond. He is not going to wait and see if Jon wants to sign a contract after testing the FA waters, since he already learned a $10-15 million lesson from Konerko about that.

 

So since Jon already turned down the Sox offer, and he has stated that he would like to play on the West coast closer to home, then KW has to buy low and sell high.

 

Also, Jon has been a disappointment until 2005. Who knows what would have happened if he had another 12-12 year with a 4.60 ERA. Even after his career year in 2005, he is still just average:

 

Lifetime

64-61, 4.42 ERA, 1.38 WHIP, .265 BAA

[VAfan]

Too bad we only have him for one more.

 

And no, contract extension talks with Garland are basically f***ed.

 

On what basis do you make this claim? The Sox never actually go to arbitration with their players. I'm sure we'll keep talking with Garland's agent. For the right price, who says Garland wouldn't return?

[fathom]

Why can't we trade Garland for Brian Giles???

[3E8]

For the right price, who says Garland wouldn't return?

Kenny Williams, for one. That's probably all that matters. He's made it quite clear he won't be victimized by the inflated market.

[beck72]

Garland will be looking to get paid as the sox #1 starter after this yr. The sox shouldn't make their #4 starter the highest paid. No one is arguing his ability. What I am arguing is paying Jon more than MB, Freddy and contreras

[CWSGuy406]

Lots of people in sabremetric community like Vazquez to rebound. His K/9 and K/BB ratio's are spectacular, and he was really unlucky last year in that a bigger percentage of his flyballs went for homers than the average pitcher, and that he had a really bad defense.

 

Being a flyball pitcher isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially when you have a good-to-great defense behind you, which is exactly what Vazquez will have.

 

I'm having visions of Vazquez repeating his 2003, 154 ERA+ season, and a whole year of New Jose.

 

As for Garland... I think KW has his eyes on Tejada...

[Dick Allen]

Evidently not accepting the team's first proposal for a contract extension, believed to be 3 years/24 million means you don't want to play for the White Sox according to Soxtalk. A lot of people are speculating on what Garland would command in the open market, and the figures on this board are so much higher than the White Sox reported offer, he would be a fool to accept said offer. KW might have gotten burned by not negotiating with Konerko last off season, but that was his fault. Konerko wanted to negotiate, KW did not. To now take a stance that says you sign here well below market value, or you get traded is puzzling. If you are truly going for another championship and Garland is one of your top 5 pitchers, you keep him. As a matter of fact, looking at Vasquez's performance his last 50 starts or so, he should be the sixth starter. His second half ERA in 2004 with the Yankees in a good park to pitch in was 6.92. Last year in the NL it was 4.42, granted he pitched in a good park to hit in, but he will be doing that now as well. The one problem with having a guy signed or under control for a few years is you may not want him those couple years. Hopefully, that's not the case with Vazquez, but I think if they had the bet in Vegas, Garland would be the odds on favorite to have the better season in 2006, and I'm a guy who wanted him gone last offseason. Keep him around, he's pitching for a contract. Worst case scenerio, you get the draft picks.