RockRaines

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Ryan is still a BA so shut up. Statistically, hes one of the worst hitters in the AFL

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) If OBP is the end all why are the White Sox going to throw all that money at Torii Hunter? Crede hit over .280 with 30 homers and 100 rbi and Keith Law says he's awful. Keith Law gets paid to say that. Sign me up. Yeah in an outlier year for him and still his OBP wasnt very good. OBP is a very good statistic and one that the White Sox should start to focus on. Joe Crede is replaceable, and right now his offensive production can be had from a 2nd year player for the minimum salary.

Keith Law chat: Keith Law: (2:42 PM ET ) No, Crede is the antithesis of those hitters. Those Yankees worked the count and got on base. Crede is awful at the plate, most of all because he doesn't control the strike zone. The NY media's obsession with Crede kills me. He stinks. If the Yankees get him, it's a waste of time.

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) Yeah, I put Joe's rookie numbers down not to show that Crede is good, but fearfully that Fields may not be quite as good as we hope. I then added those 53 games to his next 50 games to give them about a equal share of games. The stats are above.

QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) we could trade them a package with any of those guys, the Marlins could turn Garland into more prospects via trading him. It is possible I'd like to send Garland to another team in the NL such as the Mets etc and bring back at least 2 spects that we may be able to package somewhere else.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 10:33 AM) Sweeney has played well in the past week or so. He is showing pretty good base running ability as well now with 2 SB's. Perhaps that is something the white sox want him to work on? Russell with a bad outing, but Day (outside of the first week or so) has pitched very good. Ryan is still slugging .262

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 12:44 PM) Aren't you basing your love for Richar, Owens and to a certain extent Fields on about the same timeframe? yes, except for the fact that Fields and Owens played in about twice as many games. Other than that little bit of fact, you are spot on. Heres Crede's stats with the next 50 or so games mixed in so we have a good sample of about 100 games between the players .242 .274 .393 .667 Its pretty sad that Crede is thought of at this superior player when his best and probably peak year of his career yielded a .323 OBP.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) The biggest loss is defense of course. Fields may eventually be an average defensive 3B, but probably no better than that. Crede has been well above that for some time. Offensively, Fields will probably have a much better career than Crede. Probably, not definitely. Its possible that Joe had "figured it out" in 2006, and 2007 was an injury-riddled aberration, and that his back is now 100% or close to it. Not likely, though. Do you remember Joe Crede defensively before 2004? If we are counting 2002 as his "rookie season" he posted a .938, .964, .965 prior to 2005 where he put up .971 FPCT at 3B. He wasnt really GG caliber until a few seasons in. He has great hands, dont get me wrong, but I think Josh's dev at 3B has taken great strides the last couple of years. And undoubtedly he is a superior athlete to Joe, so I have faith he may end up being avg if not better.

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Joe's rookie stats .285 .311 .515 .826 Well, those were his first 53 games. Not a great stat to show considering his regression the next full season.

QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) Unless the Cardinals pick up a large chunk of the contract, I don't see how that would be a good option at all. Supposedly the arms being discussed are Bonser and Garza? That cant be right.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) They have zero use for Crede. The Marlins aren't going to compete next year with Cabrera, let alone without out him. They are looking for good, young, CHEAP talent. Crede really isn't any of those. Due to the lack of talent in the minor leagues, Fields is a must in any package for Cabrera. Which is why i wasnt listing it as a realistic possibility, it would be the only other thing we could throw out instead of Josh, and it wouldnt happen. Pretty much we have no packages that could be put together for Cabrera.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) IMO The future of the Sox is not one player it is a team of players. The best 25 we can field. Joe Crede is better at 3B and is just as good with the bat as Fields, if not better. Joe Crede career .259 .305 .446 .750 Josh Fields .244 .308 .480 .788 Better? Nope. Josh as a rookie already is producing the same as can be expected from Joe. In his minor league career he has shown a propensity to strike out, but also get on base. In the end they may have similar batting avg's but josh should have superior OBP, SLG, OPS, and walk numbers. Field's first stint as an every day 3B he posted a not great .958 FPCT Joe Crede's first stint (2002) produced a .938 FPCT. The next full season showed an improvement to .964

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 10:37 AM) How are you trading for Cabrera without giving up one of Fields or the prospects from a Konerko trade? If it's possible to get him without subtracting one of the two then you probably have the most potent lineup in White Sox history but I don't really see how that could be pulled off. Yes, Fields would most likely be included in any trade, unless they would take Crede and half of our minor league system. Oh and we would have to pay Crede's salary.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) What? Saying he is a 3rd baseman, not a 3rd baseman who could also play LF makes him more valuable? You do know every team has scouting reports on Fields and doesn't get all their information on him from Kenny Williams don't you? Its not like he's losing valuable time playing LF this winter instead of 3B considering there are no games. Yes.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 10:32 AM) How about we trade our whole farm system for Cabrera and have a middle of the order of... 2. Hunter 3. Cabrera, LF 4. Thome, DH 5. Konerko, 1B 6. Dye, RF 7. Fields, 3B

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 09:11 AM) Wouldn't saying Fields in LF and Crede at 3rd is a viable option rather than saying we have 2 thirdbasemen and Fields might have to go back to the minors drive up demand a little more? KW has said nothing about Fields in LF. They scrapped plans to have him work on it during the winter. He's not going to play LF anymore unless perhaps in a pinch. Because he's worth more as a 3B. If they are dangling him as trade bait for Cabrera, they better have him penciled in as only a 3B.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 10:01 AM) That'd be stupid. He's probably their best hitter now that ARod is gone. They apparently want to move him. I would take him in LF.

Also the yankees want to move Matsui.

Possible ideas on the trade rumor front: Garland to the mets The rockies may think about moving Holliday The Sox have called about Bill Hall as our SS Andru jones may be the actual CF target for the Sox

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 11:53 PM) What concerns me about Danks is that he doesn't have a consistent breaking ball. He rarely throws the curve for strikes, so he's mostly a two pitch pitcher, with those two pitches being fastball-changeup. Furthermore the difference in his fastball-change speed is about 7-9mph so it doesn't fool hitters very well. If you have a fastball at 90-92 and a change at 82-84 then you're not going to fool a lot of batters with it. combine that with a nonexistent curve and a launching pad for a ballpark and you have a bad pitcher my friends. OTOH, if you can teach Danks a cutter, and help him throw the curve for strikes, then he could be a Cole Hamels type. I like Danks more than Gio, because From what I saw at ST last year, Danks has a better FB and control. We don't need both of them with Mark in the rotation, so if you can trade one you do it. I'd trade Gio first because He and Danks are the same age and Danks has major league experience and Gio had to repeat AA. I also don't think Gio is really that good of a prospect. He's young and has had sucess at the minor league level, but again may I point out that he had to repeat AA. And his first goaround was in a hitters park, and he put up a 4.66 ERA. He also, IIRC, put up a 3.2 ERA in a highly pitcher friendly park in Birmingham this season in his second year in AA. I'm guessing in a hitters park he'd probably have put up and ERA slightly better than in 2006, say 4.10-4.25. He might be a great guy to meet, but I don't think he's really any good. I read the other day that his ceiling is a #3 and he probably projects to a #5 starter. IMO trade him while you can and his value is high, because he may end up being another Ryan Sweeney. Wow. Alot of mish-mash in there. Danks' best pitch is his curve, its really his only plus pitch. It may be inconsistent right now because he is a 22 year old who is in the majors one year too soon. And his fastball-change up speed change is plenty adequate especially because he has movement on it. He is advanced for his age and should improve this year. Im sure a cutter will work its way into his quiver eventually. Secondly Gio didnt HAVE to repeat AA, but it was beneficial for him for his age and career dev. He was also called one of the top LHP in the minor leagues by BA. You dont get a title like that if you arent a quality talent. And being another Ryan Sweeney? Do you know what age Ryan is? We have no idea what kind of a player he is going to be yet.

QUOTE(He_Gawn @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 05:13 PM) Thats obvious though because Eric Gordon is in the Big Ten. I think even Koufos will go before White.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 08:31 AM) Agreed. Yeah right. He is trying to drive up the demand for both Josh and Crede.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) And I think DJ will go in the first, just not a lottery (top 15 right). Most likely he wont even be the first pick out of the big ten.

I'd actually like Luke Scott in the #2 spot......