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QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 10:05 PM) I assume Clement would be involved with any trade with them. Ohh, what about Morrow... morrow and adam dont call me pacman jones would be bueno jones would make poeple forget chris young pretty quickly...though if i had to guess hes damn near close to untouchable

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:02 PM) I'm not talking about making a trade just to make one. That's just stupid. I'm talking about why Greg Walker still has a f***ing job. oh yeah, greg walker should be fired 3 weeks ago just for fun....how would this lineup look right now SS: Willie Harris - .404/.468/.535 1 HR 8 SBs CF: Aaron Rowand - .318/.389/.492 9 HR 35 RBI RF: Magglio Ordonez - .362/.437/.659 13 HR 56 RBI LF: Carlos Lee - .293/.342/.508 11HR 53 RBI DH: Frank Thomas - .226/.367/.387 8 HR 22 RBI 2b: Ray Durham - .250/.310/.400 6HR 37 RBI 3b: Jose Valentin - .261/.327/.420 2HR 13 RBI 1b: Ross Gload - .284/.317/.442 2 HHR 17 RBI C: Carlton Fisk not that Harris could play SS, though he did get 5 games there in 05

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) Nobody is untouchable. If we deal Buehrle, I would like to see at least one other starter go too. Even if we sell off a lot, I don't think we need be at 02 indians level. We could mix the old leftovers with some new blood. IE, surround Thome and Konkerko with some younger hitters. my point with thome is that his peak trade value is right now....the problem trading dye is taht we waited until 1.) he declined and 2.) he got to a contract year.....if we can jump the gun on jimmys decline (which at age 37 is sooner rather than later) and deal him before his trade value decreases due to contract situation...i think it may become advisable dont get me wrong, i love thome, his .450 obp and 1.000 + OPS, but if we can get a good young package for him you have to think about it

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:40 PM) Every single player on our team, in our organization should be made available if another team has a true desire to bring in said player. My personal players to keep are: Paulie, Buehrle, AJP, Jenks, Danks Still...if someone wanted any of those above we should listen. And with Buehrle's contract sitation I suggest he will be made available in a blockbuster at some point. so what im asking is, would you be willing to trade buerhle garland contreras and vazquez...clearly not..but how many of them, or what combo of them would you trade?

i guess my question is how much of the current 08 core would you be willing to give up (contreras, garland, vazquez, thome, konerko, AJ etc.) .... we all knwo buerhle dye and iguchi wont be around next year anyways...but is anyone willing to pull an 02 cleveland indians type rebuild? I mean i wouldn't be against trading thome. Realistically are we gonna contend in 08 with all the holes we have to fill? If the answer is no, then i think you have to at least consider trading jim, because we prolly wont pick up his 13 mil option for 09 and we could get a TON of young talent at this years deadline for him.... i mean we have plenty of valuable pieces that we can trade this deadline...SPs with big time play off experience (something every contender is almost always looking for) and a couple of tradable big bats (at least in my opinion).

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) I would try it. I would give Fields up for him - Danks - Massett - Sweeney. I would throw them all in the deal. I would trade Dye for Billingsley and whatever and throw them in them deal as well. Billingsley, Fields, Danks, Masset, and Sweeney won't get it done? the problem is that two years ago i wouldnt have doubted if KW would have traded 4 of his best prospects for him (i dont even think those 4 would get it done) but the organization is simply goign in a different direction to try to stockpile youth, specifically young arms, and to trade so many pieces that will probably play big parts of 08 and 09 isnt what we are gonna do, at least not with so many current holes that will need to be filled.....though who wouldnt love cabrera

we are 8 games under .500 and going nowhere....selling mode is inevitable......and clearly there are some guys who are prolly gonna go...buerhle, dye, maybe iguchi...the question now isnt if, but how much how much is too much to trade? Can we deal buerhle and another starter (probably contreras)? what about offensively? Can we dump dye, iguchi, and more (though i suppose the only tradable commodities are konerko thome and AJ)? Clearly the untouchables are Danks and Jenks, Fields, and Gio. I ask only because i would think teams would be willing to gamble on contreras who has big game experience. But if we trade buerhle, and then afterwards someone comes and offers us a bunch for garland/contreras/vazquez....you have to listen, right? I guess alot depends on the return we get, but for the sake of discussion, lets say we only get young players who will be ready to contribute either in 08 or 09 (ie guys like billingsley, etc) simply because we aren't trading for crawford, ichiro or miguel cabrera (at least not midseason)

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 02:46 PM) Stop sitting on your damn hands Kenny. theres no point in rushing into a trade...KW should wait and evaluate all the offers he gets/makes...no point in making a move to make a move....wait until he gets the best package...

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) Good....this team deserves that dubious honor. Right now, I'm for anything that equates to the Sox going into fire sale mode. And the rumor about the Sox asking a lot for Buehrle likely means they know they can't re-sign him this offseason. agreed completely at this point...the losses dont really hurt that much anymore because i know each one will help us ship off some guys that hopefully will help for 08 and 09

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:08 AM) Lofty expectations by saying he'll be a Grace-like player. lol i think its funny that the he used grace and jeff abbott as similar comparissons

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) So, it looks like the odds of us getting shut out two straight days is a very good possibility. To go along with the fact that Hamels is a filthy SOB, we've never seen him before. This has the makings of a rough night of baseball, once again. If I could choose between Hamels, Santana, and Peavy, I'd take Hamels in a heart beat. personally id take the other two....but even if you do take hamels, its not like hes there completely yet

can someone explain to me when cole hamels became the greatest pitcher ever to live? yes he is a fantastic young pitcher, and i know our offense is struggling, but please lets give his nutsack a little air...its not like hes santana yet

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:51 AM) I disagree with the sentiment that you have to deal now to get value. It's quite the contrary in my opinion. If you wait until the deadline, teams will be desperate to add players like Dye and Buehrle for the stretch and will likely overpay for the guy(s) they feel will push them over the hump. Just a quick question on Griffey to the Braves: Griffey's home is in Florida, correct? Also, where do the Braves have spring training? If the Braves have their spring training in Florida, this was really a no-brainer on his part, this doesn't suprise me in the slightest. thats one possibility, however, more teams might fall out of the race in 1 month, or will have already filled their needs....also teams might be more willing to give up prospects for a guy if they get 3.5 months of him rather than 2

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:49 AM) Not really sure why the Braves needs Griffey Jr. They have a great platoon situation going in LF, and have Jones/Franceour in CF/RF. If anything, that team needs help at first base. Diaz plays first as well as LF, so maybe they move him to 1b edit: nevermind...hes only played 1 game in his career there, i swear i saw him a few times come in as a double switch at first base, but i guess im wrong

wouldnt it be nice to have and OF of C. Lee Rowand and Magglio right now?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) He did? He explained why Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye and AJ Pierzynski have collectively hit for an OPS+ of about 85? Please -- somebody outline a reasonable offseason scenario that would have us -- RIGHT NOW -- competing with Detroit and Cleveland. I still haven't seen one yet... nor the posts from the winter calling for Crede to be traded. 05 bullpen + 06 offense + 07 Starting pitching (or 05 for that matter) seriously though...you are right...theres not alot KW could have done...nobody could have expected crede, iguchi, konerko, dye, piersynski, macdougal to all have career worst years, combine that with teh fact that injuries have depleted our bench....that said KW could have shored a few things up, but it wouldn't have mattered...too much has gone wrong this season

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:19 PM) Walker may not be failing, but he certainly isn't helping the situation. Cut the dead weight. Might as well try to find someone that can help the situation. Apparently, things can't get worse with such a move. I personally think walker should be fired as well.....but god, how awful do i feel for him....look at what he has to work with on that team so far this year.... mackowiak: shouldnt get more than 200 ABs in a season and is suddenly our leadoff hitter iguchi: language barrier and a singles hitter who Ks way too often --> worthless, especially when he is one pace for only like 7 HR and 13SBs Konerko: a guy who is prone to more hot and cold streaks than anyone i can remember in recent sox history Crede: simply just a bad and impatient hitter Fields: a guy he is basically coaching for the first time Terrero: career backup/AAAA player Andy Gonzalez: guy who offensively doesnt' deserve to be higher than single A Erstad/Pods: worhtless hitters to an offense unless they are getting on and running...which neither have done for a while Sweeney/Anderson: not ready/not very good Pablo Ozuna: also a career minor league guy who has managed in 2 years with this team to swing an incredibly magic stick....also is allergic to the BB that basically leaves Dye, AJ and Thome 2 of which are struggling and Walker has to get alot of the blame for oh i left off uribe....hes just horrible

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) Just to remind everyone of our position in the standings, we're currently 9 games out of the division lead and 8 out of the wild card lead with eight teams to jump. Our streak of avoiding Top 10 selections in the draft is looking to be in jeopardy. honestly these losses are so much easier right now than they were 2 or 3 weeks ago, when i actually thought we had a shot to contend....each loss now just means we are one step closer toward KW hopefully trading one or all of the trio of dye iguchi buerhle for 2 or more pieces each to next years team

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) That's me. I'm ripping him. I'm not blaming him for tonight. But I am ripping him. Because 3 times a game, he leaves it up, and he gets rocked. If no one's on base, it's 3 runs. If Mr. Nibbles happens to put a couple of guys on beforehand, it's 5 or 6 runs. I'm tired of it. That guy symbolizes every mistake Kenny Williams has made -- his total fixation on guys, regardless of their abilities and track record; his belief that he's smarter than everyone else about "the market;" and his conviction that the organization he built can "fix" guys. Jesus, man, how about this: develop some players, reward the guys who have done something for the team (not those you think MIGHT), and stop b****ing about the world as it is -- just deal with it. vazquez hasnt given up 6 runs all year and has only given up 6 once in the second half of last year and through the first two and a half months this year....thats almost a full year of pitching....no, vazquez isnt roy halladay and won't have a 2.9 ERA, but he has kept us in ballgames for a year now with an ERA in the low 4s, and for a guy who pitches 200 innings in doing so is actually pretty valuable to a team....ask the As seriously...put the blame where its due...javy had a QS tonight

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 07:05 PM) IMO, that's just a terrible return for Dye. I'd much rather have the 2 draft picks. And yes, we get 2 picks if someone signs JD: his performance last year counts when they determine whether he's an A level FA or not. hey balta...do you have any idea about whether iguchi will be type A also? its an interesting thing to consider... i mean i would love to trade buerhle this year (mainly cuz i believe he will bring back 2 major league calibur prospects) and keep iguchi and dye and get 2 first rounders and 2 sandwich picks for them...that way we get some young players ready to contribute in the next year or two for buerhle, that hopefully woul be sure things, and some young players for later down the road in 09 and 10

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:57 PM) He hurt his shoulder/neck area in a collision several weeks back and has mostly been DHing as a result. oh ok...thanks...there is still hope for him i suppose...but i think the window is closing rather quickly

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:56 PM) Except for the big country boy in the 3 hole with the 1.000+ OPS of course. big red has a point though...even though the early 2000 teams were mediocre i feel like they were more fun to root for....probably because they had a bunch of guys who i considered white sox...that is they came up with us or were there for a long time....ie durham magglio el caballo big frank....actually it probably has to do with the fact that offense is exciting

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) Or that he's still hurt. whats his injury? why is he playin if hes still hurt ?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:48 PM) And in something that can only make you laugh, Charlotte got shutout/4-hit tonight. as if brian andersons stock hadnt been bad enough with a terrible showing in the bigs last year, his .735 OPS at AAA is really beginning to suggest that hes looking more like joe borchard than aaron rowand

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:26 PM) Good job reading the first line of my post. I didn't blame the game on Javier Floyd Bannister Vazquez. But by the way, if you're questioning moves by Kenny Williams, I think that trading your best outfield prospect for a mediocrity, then being at least 2 outfielders short the VERY NEXT year, is a problem. Then Williams pays the guy $11 million -- all the while complaining that he can't afford another outfielder, or bullpen help, or Mark Buehrle, and then tries to trade Jon Garland -- all because life is getting too expensive! Really? Then don't pay Javy 11 million dollars! Maybe you're right. It's not Javy's fault that he's mediocre. It's Kenny's fault that Javy's mediocre -- and here. vazquez has been an above average league pitcher this year....not gonna say hes been great by any means...but hes given us basically everything we could have hoped for....12 games this year...has given up 5 runs in three of them, and 4 runs in 3 of them....so basically 6 of 12 were quality starts, and none of the other six were terrible outings...at least he gave the team a chance to win in them....frankly if you can hold a team to 4 or under runs in 75% of your starts, you are doing a pretty good job for a 4th starter...... that said sure id love to have chris young back....but 11 mil is about the going rate for an innings eating starter like vazquez, and he resigned him for a reasonable 3 year deal....seriuosly quit blaming starting pitching....we have the worst O in the majors and hte worst bullpen in the majors...2/3 facets of the game and the starting pitching which has "carried us" or at least prevented us from basically being the royals gets blasted...i dont get it