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QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) I would say that it's very possible, but not probable, that Quintana is more valuable (disregarding contract) over the next 3 years. I think the main scenario that would make Q more valuable is an injury to Sale, something that feels more likely to happen to Sale but hasn't really ever materialized. An injury is always possible. However, as the GM making this trade are you going to bet your top minor league talent on it? I wouldn't.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) I'm beginning to think he's a member of the 2017 White Sox. If I'm starting to think it - maybe opposing GM's are as well... which could be just what hahn wants. In a rebuilding Hahn and Hostetler I trust. I agree. And I'm ok with it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) That is an intriguing package. Severino could make or break that package. Well if true, Cashman turned it down so it wouldn't be quite that package anyway.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) First time I've seen names from the Yanks in talks for Q. https://elitesportsny.com/2016/12/30/despit...must-stick-plan That should give people a little perspective on what other GM's think he is worth.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) This is the same thing I have said before. It amazes me how some people are so quick to undervalue and even denigrate our own players. In the case of Quintana, or our other main players, I can't figure out how someone thinks that in February his value suddenly declines? We don't have to trade Q period unless we get our asking price double period ? Correct. They should keep him if they aren't satisfied with the deal. I don't think anyone said his value has declined. I think what most are saying is that many on this board had unrealistic expectations.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) He definitely isnt if you factor in marketability and give style points. But teams have to focus on winning and let their other players bring those things. Regardless of those. There isn't really anything Quintana does better than Sale, except maybe give up a few less HR's. Sale has more K's and fewer BB over the last 4 years. he also has pitched slightly fewer innings.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) That's an awful trade for the Sox? That would be by far the best trade they've made thus far. I agree. That would be a really good one.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) They can still threaten to tag him and then trade him right? With the amount of cap space the Bears have, I don't see why you wouldn't just tag him for a second year. Assuming a rookie QB, having a guy with Alshon's skills would be a nice security blanket for a young QB. Missing most of the season with injuries and having very little practice time with the new qb?

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) We are starting to talk ourselves into Q being overrated and not as valuable already. Crazy talk. All depends on where you rated him to begin with. I still don't think he is as valuable as Sale was.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) Strongly disagree. A lot of teams are not capable of paying TOR $30 million a year, and there are several who are that are trying to get under the luxury tax. There will always be a huge market for Q as long as he performs like he has performed. No doubt.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 12:24 PM) It's funny that you say that, because based on Sale's September meltdowns and Q's incredible consistency, in a Sale vs. Q postseason matchup, provided everything else was relatively equal, I'd put my money on Q. Of course other teams want to undervalue Q, they're the ones potentially paying the price for him, but to suggest that the White Sox should significantly lower their standards from a Sale package is wrong IMO. If another team wants Q, they need to pay an appropriate price for him, and the White Sox should not back down from that line of thought just because those teams don't want to do what it takes to get a player the caliber of Q. If you truly think you would rather have Quintana than Sale, be my guest. however, I think you may one of the few. There is a reason boston wanted Sale not Quintana even though Quintana had a more favorable contract.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 11:54 AM) I was reading the comments on the most recent Q article on Purple Row (Rockies fan site), and there was a comment that was pretty spot on re: the difference in value between Q and Sale. Other than strikeouts, Q and Sale have pretty similar advanced numbers - whether that's judged by FIP, WAR, ERA +, etc. Where they differ is on their ability to dominate in a given game. It shouldn't be a surprise to any of us that Sale has the pure stuff to win a game by himself, and Q just doesn't have that level of stuff. With Q, you are dealing for a really, really good pitcher. Durable, consistent, and on an absurdly cheap deal. But you aren't dealing for a guy that's going to go out and steal a game for you with an 8 IP, 2 H, 14 K day. Teams are more likely to give top flight value for the guy who can go out and give you Sale's top end level of brilliance than the guy who is going to give you Q's sustained level of consistently very, very good. If there is a disconnect, IMO, that's going to be it. I would agree. There is also the mental aspect of never been a true "ace of a staff." Not that he can't be, but that doubt would also make a GM a little hesitant.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 11:12 AM) Yet...but after time and deep thought I think teams will talk themselves into believing he is a number 1. I hope so. The team could use some more talent. However, as I've said before. With his contract he should still be under a reasonable contract when the team is good again. That's one less good pitcher they would need to find from the prospects.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) Is Quintana really worth more to the Sox than other teams? Sox are going to waste his age 28 and age 29 seasons and endure two years of the risk of injury/loss of effectiveness just so they can have have him wrapped up cheap for one year of "maybe we'll contend, best case scenario" in 2019 and then one year of what should be an honest effort to win the AL Central. I guess it depends what the Yankees and Pirates are willing to part with, but they would really have to be lowballing the Sox to not make it worth dealing Jose Quintana. Sorry, i should have said perceived worth.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) Purple Row has had two articles about Q to the Rockies, so their fanbase is interested, and the Rockies front office is notoriously quiet. We know they talked to the Sox about Abreu and Frazier before the Winter Meetings, so there has been communication between the two FOs. Point here - there's been chatter, but nothing from any official capacity. I'm skeptical it will happen because of the nuances of pitching in Coors, and I think there was an Olney chat shortly after the Eaton trade that was skeptical of how Q's curve would play in Denver. But there's been at least some smoke around the Rockies and Q. I'm not worried that Hahn has overplayed his hand, and I'm not aware of any evidence that the Pirates have backed out. If there's a deal to be made, it will get done. There's no sense in giving Q away. I keep going back to the fact that he is worth more to the Sox than other teams because of the way others view him. The Sox won't trade him for less than a #1 is worth and others don't view him that way, thus no trade.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) I agree, I think the fan experience inside the stadium is very underrated, it's very solid. Only negative is that when you are in the top rows of the 400 level, there is no middle concourse exit, so you have to go all the way down. And I agree with this too. If you drive and park, the traffic is always brutal. That always makes the CTA shuttle buses a giant pain in the ass cause they take so long. We call the walk north to Roosevelt the death march, it's soooo long. The 18th street pedestrian bridge is much more manageable, but there's not as much over there and not close to major public transportation. The 18th st. bridge is part of the metra platform.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) Its the smallest stadium in the NFL, that alone is a HUGE error. Its also quiet as hell. They had the chance to build a stadium that could be used for multiple events year round and they didnt. They also have the worst professional surface in the country. its a disaster. This is true. but i said from a fan/spectator perspective. There is nothing wrong with the stadium from a fan watching the game.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 01:29 PM) Not really. Its the worst in the city. Walking is entirely done from over a mile away, there is one road that goes past it. One. There is little to no public transportation options. Its awful. The shuttle from union station is fine. the metra drops you off right there. There are plenty of parking lots accessibile from both north and south. I guess i just haven't found the difficulty that you have. It usually takes me longer to get out of comiskey parking than soldiers field.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) Jose Quintana's career GB/FB is 1.30. He is a neutral leaning towards ground ball pitcher. Some of that is predicated on his very good curveball. As someone else stated it may not play as well in Colorado.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) The golden rule to consider before you propose a trade involving your team - would you accept this if you were the GM of the other team? GMs would probably accept roughly 0.34% of proposed online trades. you're being generous.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:49 AM) It should be a caution to all those that think the White Sox already have the 2019 greatest rotation in baseball. Eaton and Davidson were similarly ranked as prospects. One turned out better than could be expected, the other went from 'when can he be called up and not be a super 2" to a AAA strikeout king with 2 White Sox AB in 3 years. That's why they needed to stock pile them. At least 3-4 should work out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) We will see. Adrian Nieto looked like a decent back up catcher a couple of years ago. I recall nieto struggling defensively. He wouldn't make a good backup, if so.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) Not but he hit homers. Framed well. Those are 2 things Navaraez doesn't do yet. He was released a time or two IIRC. Framing obviously wasn't a thing for most of his career, but I think a good one leads to better results, and that helped him. If you are a good guy and a decent defensive catcher, I agree, you can last a long time as a back up, but those guys usually bounce around quite a bit. no doubt. Good receivers will last a long time in the league. i think Navarez can be one.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) I don't believe he will. He's not a good framer. He hit OK, but has zero power, and will regress IMO offensively. Obviously the bar for a back up catcher isn't very high, I just think he is a guy that will probably have a tough time moving forward. Fair enough. The bar for backup catcher is never very high. All you need to be is decent and have the pitchers like you. look at David Ross. how long was he in the MLB and I don't think he ever was very good.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) Meanwhile Addison Reed actually turned out to be really, really good (although typically, after he left the Diamondbacks) Especially since many on this board though it was a no brainer to trade an MLB proven "just a reliever" for a shot at a potential 3B