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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) They'll never compete with the Cubs for fan interest, as the Cubs have the "outside of Chicago suburbs" market in hand. Sox just have to win enough to draw a decent enough amount to be able to have a solid payroll. Agreed.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) They just have to win. The fans were excited for last year, but that excitement quickly vanished with the slow start. Don't get me wrong, I have season tickets and will always go to games. I've just become more pessimistic that just winning will ever bring the sox to the cubs levels for interest.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) They were already let them going to move once, not sure why they would stop them now. That was to an untapped market in florida, which turned out to be a dry well as not many fans seem to go. Where is the untapped market now?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) The casual fan only cares about getting to the playoffs and how you do once you get there. That's just the way it is. Even with the Cubs, fans didnt really start coming out of the woodwork until August/September last year. I go to roughly 25 games a year, it sucks to see the stadium empty, but let's not pretend like the Sox have given fans all that much reason to go to the ballpark. They dont spend in FA, they dont spend internationally, they only recently started investing more in scouting/drafting, the park (while a perfectly acceptable place to catch a game) is kinda boring, the neighborhood doesnt really have a draw...unless the Sox start seeing the playoffs more, dont expect the attendance situation to change. The sox spend in free agency. Robertson and cabrera just last year. Internationally they've done pretty well with Rameirez and abreu recently. I've never really understood what the neighborhood has to do with watching a baseball game. My point all along is that the attendance wont challenge the cubs even with more playoff appearances. I just see more excuses in general from sox fans to not go.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:14 PM) As long as Heyward is really good for 3 years, this is a pretty genius contract for Theo. He lets him walk when his guys get expensive and doesn't have to pay him for his over 30 years. The gamble is Heyward doesn't regress for 3 years. That seems like a decent bet. The downside is if he gets injured or falls apart, Theo has a problem. The other scenarios where it could a problem is an injury or if he truly enjoys the situation with chicago and maddon and decides he can live with 24 million per year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) Of course, 4 years from now there's going to be a lot more revenue growth, including new local TV deal/local TV channel for the Cubs. If you throw in "competitive every year led by that AS 3rd baseman" and maybe, god forbid, even a WS appearance (I will not type anything farther than that), the revenue growth on the north side could very easily compensate for that. Of course. Having more revenue changes the whole equation. I was referring to a scenario if the service time on the young players was at the arbitration or near free agency now instead of them being inexpensive.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:54 PM) This organization hasnt really given fans a reason to go if we are being serious. Theyve been to the playoffs 6 times since 1920. This is what I mean. In the late 90's and 2000s the sox had one of the highest winning percaentages in baseball. Fans didnt go because thet werent in the playoffs. If the sox consistently nake the playoffs, fans wont go because they didnt win the world series often enough. I hafe season tickets because I enjoy baseball, live closer to the ballpark and enjoy the ballpark.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) This is wrong. There's no limit to how much money teams can spend, so the Heyward money is play money. It's all about player value. Teams can sign guys and sit them if they want. Yes, there is alimit to what the teams can spend. It's whatever the owner says. The GM needs to work within tnose constraints. Right niw the cubs have an advantage because most of their players are young and inexpensive. If this was 4 years fromnow and scwarber and bryant etc. ars in arbitration, you can bet the cubs wouldn't be in the position to make this deal.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) It wouldn't really help. The Cubs lost on purpose for 5 years, let everyone know it, and the Sox still couldn't put even a dent in their dominance over the area. That's the problem with playing in a concrete sarcophagus (totally Sox fault) at 35th & Shields (not the Sox fault). The White Sox cling to the roughly 50/50 split they share with the Cubs in the city itself, but it's highly unlikely that survives a Cubs championship. You saw how the Blackhawks went from 2,000 people a night to over a million turning out for the parade? The Cubs will make that look like nothing. Chicago is a bandwagon sports town, and for the last 20 years it's been storing energy for a Cubs blowout that will boggle your mind. I dont think it's the ballpark. Its really a great place to watch a game. I think it's sox fans in general look for excuses not to go.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) The Braves have averaged 2.7M fans over the past 25 years. The White Sox averaged 2M fans in that same span. From 05 to 08 (1 World Series and 1 Other PLayoff Performance) they averaged 2.6M. Within that range the Sox had a 90 win club that didn't make the playoffs and than a really disappointing 72 win club. In reality, the Sox are probably in a different place had the new wild card rules been in effect. I don't know exactly, but I think we'd have quite a few more appearances in that 2000 - 2009 window. I agree but I just don't see it being enough to get over the cubs, something atlanta doesnt need to deal with until college football begins.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) If the White Sox went on a run, similar to that of the Angels in the 2000's, I think they would quickly grow in popularity / dominance. I don't think it takes sustained world series, it takes a world series along with sustained playoff contention (and playoff appearances). The Sox had shots to capitalize but could never actually put that consistent run of getting into the playoffs together. You look back over the Ken Williams era (as GM / president) and I can think of very few cases where the actual record was better than the perceived talent level. I can think of a hell of a lot of situations where the actual record was worse than the perceived talent level. Not sure what that means. Bad roster architect, bad luck, poor coaching or what, but that is a pretty long-term trend that has popped up during Kenny's time at the helm. Possible, but I don't think a long playoff run would do it. I think sox fans would become like the atlanta fans where playoff game wouldn't even sellout because they weren't satisfied with the lack of world series wins. Sox fans have a long history of looking for excuses to not support the team.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:08 PM) So guesses on where the outfielders go: Gordon: Cardinals Upton: Giants Davis (not an OF): Orioles Fowler: Mets Cespedes: Tigers I agree gordon to the cardinals is a forgone conclusion, although it may be upton. They will surelygivethe next highest contract ifthey were offering 200 million to heyward. I think what most people foget is that this is the backup plan for the cubs. This money was earmarked for price, who turned them down. They weren't going to offer 2 of these types of contracts.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) Have to give the Cubs credit. They are augmenting a strong young corps with the pieces they need. And if you think they are spending money right now just wait till they start their own TV network by 2020. I don't know what the Sox can do, if anything, to counter this. Yes pennants aren't won in January but the Sox continue to be considered an after thought in their own home market. That is going to impact fair weather fans, potential advertising and marketing dollars and opportunities and last but not least the money they are going to be able to get when their TV contract expires. Given they are dead last in RSN viewership (according to both Fan Graphs and ESPN.com) they are only dreaming if they think they'll get anything close to the billion dollar deals being handed out most recently to the Cardinals over the summer. I truly believe now more than ever new ownership and a complete housecleaning on the baseball side of the front office is desperately needed. Mark This move has not changed the fact that the sox are an afterthought. They have been since 1984. The sox are like the mets of new york. They each would need to win 4 world series in the next decade to not be the afterthoughts.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 12:58 PM) The Cardinals pitchers also all got pretty lucky this year. The team is primed for big regression, it's between the Pirates/Cubs next year. You mean having the number 1 starter missing most of the year due to a torn achilles tendon was lucky?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) Well their depth was sad and their hitting was terrible. Heyward was the only power/reliable offensive player they had on the team entering the playoffs. Thats because holiday and adams were out with injuries and molina was trying to play with a tirn ucl in his thumb.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) I can't explain how much I agree with this... Hell, I'd give him a 10 year/$250 million deal with a player opt-out after year 4. Then the Sox would have him in his age 26-30 seasons and then he'll be gone. What if he fractures his ankle in year 3 and can't run like before. That team is stuck with the entire contract. I wouldn't take that chance with the budget constraints the Sox have.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 09:49 PM) 2 other pitchers to add to the list. Juan Agosto (I mean Juan Disgusto), and a reliever named Pablo Torrealba. When he made his dismal debut, Harry Carry said out loud on the broadcast' Pablo Torrealba! Where do they get these guys?" Juan Agosto was a pretty good pitcher. He played for a number of year and was ok. He wasn't a star but was far from terrible or the worst player in history.

QUOTE (Dizzy Sox @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 05:12 PM) Burns retired after he was traded to the Yankees in 1985, which by some measures was his best year. Dotson had a weird pec injury if I remember correctly, but he remained a serviceable pitcher for a number of years after his prime. In fact, I remember Dotson as being the only pitcher who was as good in '84 as he was the previous year, up until the all star break at least. He was 11-4 w/2.64 era on July 4th and ended the season 14-15 w/3.59 era. Now, if you want to argue that the huge (for the time) contract he gave to Floyd Bannister, who outside of '83 was a huge disappointment...I could see that. But not Burns and Dot. The injuries were what made the issue. Both went from extremely good to bad very quickly. Burns because of the degenerative hip. Dotson had thoracic outlet syndrome where he was losing circulation with his arm over his head. Not good for pitcher. The surgeons had to remove his pectoralis minor. My point was that he saw how quickly pitchers can go from being really good and young to bad in a short period of time with his best pitchers. They traded hoyt because they thought these guys would be the anchor of the rotation. He learned early in his tenure about what can happen to pitchers, even young and previuosly healthy ones.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 04:51 PM) I would say the signing and subsequent performance of Jaime Navarro set JR back so much that it still impacts the manner in which he runs the team. i think really came from Britt Burns and Richard Dotson. They were borderline great until the 1983 season and either retired from injury or couldn't pitch effective again. It was also his first few season of being the Chairman of the team.

Kenny Williams

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) I still think if Arrieta regresses at all they're f***ed. He will. Just depends how much. Look at the number of innings pitched from one year to the next.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 09:45 PM) He's not a good clubhouse guy from what I've heard, but I honestly don't give a rats ass about that. He has serious talent at a position the Sox seriously needed to upgrade. If he plays like he can and helps the team improve, I really couldn't care less what his personality is. I know. I've got friends who've worked with him. I should have put it in green.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 09:46 PM) Micah would be a complementary piece in a Frazier trade. Micah, Montas, Michalczewski, and Danish for Frazier? Anderson, Montas, and Micah for Frazier? They will not trade him. Good 3B for the future. Probably ready right when Frazier would leave, if they get him.

It's amazing how many people were blasting KW about possibly paying too much before the deal but are praising Hahn for making a great deal afterwards. They gave up minimal assets to get him. It makes you wonder why the A's were so desperate to get rid of him after only 1 year when he was an important piece of a trade.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) KW is the Executive Vice President, he is in charge. What about Kenny screams out to you that he isnt trying to call shots or at the very least have a voice in whats going on? He is constantly in the media spouting off like he is very much involved. What is it about Hahn screams at you that he gave up "real GM" positions for one where he has no power? He must've know that KW wouldn't let him do anything because he's worked with him for years.