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QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) They really need to work with Santiago on his offspeed pitches. He just doesn't get those pitches over enough or fool enough hitters. The screwball sounds cool in theory, but it's just not very effective. Could be the reason they want him in the pen right now.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 09:10 PM) I don't really think that's the case. Rogers was critical of Williams last year because of some of the deals he made and contracts that he offered. He's one of the few guys who didn't believe that winning the World Series in 2005 gave Williams a lifetime pass from criticism. He didn't like the way he emptied the farm system -- and he thought the farm system underperformed. And my guess is that there are folks around the White Sox who also believe that folks looked the other way from some of Williams' excesses. I doubt Rogers just cooked up a story line that Williams was lazy. Not that kind of guy. Cowley? Maybe. Mariotti? Absolutely. Rogers? I don't think so. Nothing wrong with criticizing the handling of the team. His farm systems did underperform. Stating a guy was too lazy to do his job is another. What excesses did KW take? He obviously did cook up the story. The information he brought isn't new or news. He just turned into a story by calling KW lazy.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 10:08 PM) And people like Kenny Williams are why the Chicago White Sox are dying -- in the standings and at the box office. Rogers is a soldier. Williams was a general -- and a reckless one. Doesn't mean he was lazy. Ineffective, yes. Big difference.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:35 PM) It was just his opinion. Just like people have the opinion that Rogers doesn't know what he's talking about. Whether he was lazy or the hardest working guy in baseball, Kenny Williams left the White Sox with an immense mess that will take years to fix. For that, I say: Good riddance. I agree that it's opinion and you can say you didn't like what he did. However, for a reporter of a major new outlet in the town it's quite irresponsible to do that. He will point to last year when KW was turning the job over to Hahn and say he was right It's just a guy with an axe to grind and it makes him look petty and bitter that KW didn't like his profession.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 08:12 PM) Maybe Kenny Williams will go fix the Oakland Raiders And take Adam Dunn to play QB. He can't leave soon enough Go Phil, Go. You can disagree with the philosophy but saying a guy was too lazy to do his job is just irresponsible.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 8, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe Rogers is telling us the truth about KW. I've never heard nor seen anything that would even imply this about KW until last year when Hahn was slowly taking a more active role in things. KW did slowly do less and allow Hahn to "get his feet wet." So the stuff last year is probably somewhat true but not from being lazy. It sounds like a reporter firing at a guy who always disliked the media and having to deal with them. Just like many of the radio guys didn't like him because he wouldn't go on the radio.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Mar/11...marcos-pitcher/ I like the follow through when throwing the circle change. Young pitchers will often alter the motion with the changeup

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) DANG LOOK AT THIS PLAY BY JACOB MAY He's got Alexei Rameirez CF skills!!!!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) I think people get too carried away with rankings. If Law and Mayo had all the answers, they would be running someone's draft. Baseball America uses guys like Phil Rogers to rank guys. Baseball is one sport where individual teams' board vary greatly. If you get one really good player out of a draft and 2 or 3 complementary ones, it's a great draft. For all we know ultimately the best player out of this draft for the White Sox may not have even been selected yet. It does make it fun, but it's really impossible to criticize fairly until a few years from now. This should be the first post for the draft thread every year. Just copy it and start the thread with it.

QUOTE (TomPickle @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) Those guys were handled a lot differently though. Buehrle had 30 starts in the minors before he came up and Sale didn't even have 30 IP before he was called up. I don't see how they could take this kid and not at least try him out as a starter first. I would as well. However, if there is a contract clause similar to Sale's (I would doubt that as a HS is different than a college pitcher) it could change. The key factor will be if he develops something other than the FB/slider mix, although some MLB pitchers can get away with that as well especially with the deception in his delivery.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) The question is how much velocity or movement might be affected should they go that route... For example, Jose Contreras, that arm slot/angle always made a huge difference between dominant and ineffective. Then you have the control/command issues and changing "muscle memory." I think Greg has brought this up a few times in reference to Nathan Jones and the way he slings the ball...but it doesn't seem the White Sox have ever really tried to change his mechanics (correct me if I'm wrong, minor league experts). The White sox are very good about letting pitchers throw the way they want to and focus more on the grip and quality of pitches. Cooper has often said that it's the results they look at. They only thing I've really ever heard him discuss with mechanics much was balance but this too was more related to being able to throw with command rather than actual mechanics. I like this approach. As a person who has studied throwing mechanics and worked with pitchers, people are far too concerned with minute differences in mechanics.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Maybe they are going to rush him up to the big leagues as a reliever....seems when you take a high school kid these days, you're almost betting on him going through TJ surgery at some point in the minors or first six years in the majors. However, as we all know from the John Danks discussion/s, shoulder injuries aren't easy to come back from at 100%. Still, if the White Sox are really going with TBA philosophy, they have to be considering him as a starter FIRST, because you don't draft relievers generally before the 5th/6th rounds. There have been some exceptions with the White Sox, Royce Ring, Poreda (they wanted him to be a starter), Addison Reed was 3rd round, I think Josh Fogg was picked in the first five rounds (yep, looked it up, 3rd round) as a closer out of the Univ. of Florida and then converted to starter, and Sale started out in the bullpen his first two seasons. I'm sure they are thinking long term starter. It could be a Sale or Buehrle scenario where he comes up as a reliever but the plan is to make him a starter. Those mechanics just scare me. Not to say that he can't pitch with those but it leaves alot of room for doubt.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) The are reports he is very willing to change arm slot and accompanying mechanics if so desired by the drafting team. Maybe the Sox plan to clean it up. That would be a big risk. I'm sure a lot of his effectiveness is similar to Peavy, those mechanics create a very different movement on his pitches. If you "straighten him out" there is no guarantee he will be effective.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 7, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) Well obviously you give him a chance to prove that he can't start, but everything about the way he throws screams reliever eventually. The way he throws screams shoulder injury. Anterior capsule, subscapularis or labrum most likely. Not a fan of guys who don't have the good trunk flexion and follow through.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 5, 2013 -> 03:27 PM) AFAIK both MLB and the Olympics use T/E ratio as basis for further testing. This is the only way to truly get an accurrate test. There are so many unknown substances out there that they do not know what to test for. However if you have the baseline you can test fort he effects.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 6, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) Hey look. Jake Peavy, yet again, gets hurt trying to be a tough guy. Heaven forbid he ever once fess up that he doesn't feel right. He did not get hurt trying to be a tough guy. He got hurt and tried to pitch through it when they thought the rib was hypomobile. This is why they tried the manipulations. It's amazing the how injuries turn into the player's fault and trying to play with pain is all of their problem. You do realize that all pitchers have some type of pain or soreness by this time of the year. The key is trying to figure out which ones need to be shut down. A non-displaced rib fracture would be impossible to diagnose without the severe pain and imaging. The logical first step it to look at the hypomobility.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 24, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) Was it the "lap band" or gastric bypass? I'm not sure. I didn't ask details. I know he had the surgery lost a bunch of weight, gained some back and is now down again. He has really battled it and come out strong.

QUOTE (oldsox @ May 24, 2013 -> 06:23 AM) Herm has lost some weight the last few years. Wonder how much? He had a surgery to help lose weight. I'm not sure of the exact amount but he looks much better and is much healthier at 60 than he was in his 40's.

Good article. He carries the banner for our profession. The was an error in the article. When he chipped out Walker's teeth he was having a seizure not a stroke.

QUOTE (Tex @ May 22, 2013 -> 12:52 PM) As the face of the owners, he's not nearly as interesting as Bill, but overall I believe the club did well to have him as owner. DeBartolo was someone I really hoped would get the club, but this worked out fine. There aren't too many good owners, I would put JR in the upper 1/4. Too many gambling and tax problems. That's why he had to sell his shares of the racetracks and give control of the 49er's to his kids.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 10, 2013 -> 08:54 AM) If he doesn't want to be out there then I don't want him out there anyway. If he's just being a dickwad when welcome to the era of prima donna superstar athletes. It may not be this. I think I posted this elsewhere but as soon as he said he wasn't coming back until he felt "normal" I said he wouldn't be back this year. You can get medical clearance to play around 8-10 months. The knee is structurally sound. However, when you talk to professional athletes they say you don't feel "normal" until around 18 months post-op. Some speculate that it is due to nerve regeneration which takes about that much time. With his style of game and his comments about feeling "normal", it's not surprising he isn't playing.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 9, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) Sure he can -- he'll still be working out, throwing sides, and then of course, limited innings. That will not be as effective as actual games. Working out doesn't simulate throwing enough. Side sessions are fine between pitching but again it's not like games. He and the sox are better off having him in the minors until he is ready.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 8, 2013 -> 11:23 AM) There's probably some discussion of this in the 26 pages of this thread which i'm not going to read, but what does the rotation look like with Danks? Is he better than Axelrod or Santiago? Would Danks accept a role as the long man in the pen until his shoulder is back to full strength? You really can't build up strength unless it's on a regular increasing schedule. He's better off in the minors for that reason.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 7, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) Mods shouldn't the title now reflect this ? :5/6/13 RHP Gavin Floyd will undergo season-ending surgery tomorrow in New York City to repair the ulnar collateral ligament & a torn flexor muscle in his elbow. Expected recovery time for Floyd, 30, is approximately 14-19 months. moved to 60 day DL I hadn't seen that he had a tear in the flexor tendon as well. That will extend the recovery time a bit.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 7, 2013 -> 03:40 PM) Had this argument here this offseason, but I'll believe a pitcher will return to form after any shoulder surgery only after I see it. Many do. However, it's usually only the "cleanup" type surgeries. Danks was more involved than that but I still see no reason as to why he wouldn't.