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QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:12 PM) Wicky got out of a lot of jams last year, hopefully those men on base get in this year. The Indians, IMO, are not better this year so far, even with the extra year of growth from their players. I think Sizemore and Peralta might have sophomore slumps. We can hope but I really do like both players, offensively and defensively

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) I didn't know those were edible. Especially inflated. that's just his shape. But now that you mention it, he probably would eat it if there were no doughnuts around

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:06 PM) he'll stay healthy because he keeps himself in such great shape. Beachball?

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 05:48 PM) Nice, their options on closer get smaller. I like it. Yes, the weaker the better. The starting staff should be fairly strong with Westbrook, Byrd et al., so let's hope the bullpen weakens

QUOTE(sox84 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) Just a perspective from an area where you'll hear alot of Cardinal info, I think Sox ownership and front office currently stacks up better than this survey shows. Where the Sox stepped up and added a year to Konerko's contract when it became evident they had to in order to keep him, St Louis did not on Burnette and let him get away to Toronto. Players coming to st Louis are expected to sign for less because its 'such a good environment'. Cardinals are raking in money but not as willing to spend it.. Way to go Kenny and Jerry With Burnette's history of injuries, I wouldn't have added the extra year either. Toronto will regret that deal, not the money per year but the length of the deal.

Has anyone heard the final reason Valido was pulled from the AFL? There was some speculation but I haven't seen a definitive answer.

I just heard on MLB XM that the latest is a deal with Abreu going to the dodgers. Anyone else have any information. I don't see on the board anywhere. Sorry there should a ? in the title but I don't know how to change it. Thank you mods

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 11:45 AM) I would say that of course pitching of any sort puts stress on his arm, but because of the way he uses his legs, his pitching tends to put less stress on the arm than the pitching style of say a Kerry Wood or an Eric Gagne...guys who drive the ball much more with their arms. Their fastballs probably put more stress on the arm than Prior's breaking ball puts on his...to say nothing about their breaking balls. Of course pitching puts a great deal of stress on the arm. Most studies show that every pitch puts enough stress on the ulnar collateral ligament to rupture it. However, with proper mechanics, this stress is reduced. I don't know what you mean by driving with his arm but it's the position the arm is put in that makes most of the stress. Legs have bigger muscles and have much more ligamentous stability so that is where the power comes from. The postion in which the shoulder girdle and elbow are placed will mostly determine the stress on the medial side of the elbow which is where these players are having most of their problems.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2005 -> 10:04 PM) I put some of that blame on Baker, however, some of those trips were totally fluke injuries (getting smacked by a baseball, etc.). That said he puts little stress on his arm and the only reason he's had any of the problems he's had is because Baker is a total dips*** when it comes to managing his staff (I was busy saying this the year the Cubs were a few outs shy of making the world series and I guaranteed that half of there rotation would end up being on the DL most of the season). He still pitched 166 innings this past year and has a 200 inning season under his belt. Simply put, if we think AJ Burnett just signed a fat contract, imagine what Prior would get on the FA market. I'm thinking 13-15 mill a year for 5. But if the Phils get Prior they would be getting him at well under market value while if Abreu were to become a FA today he'd probably make right around what he's getting now (if not a little less). Plus pitching >>> hitting and Prior is not even in his prime (Abreu is right at the end of his prime). There are many who will diagree with this statement. He follows the Tom House theory of mechanincs (as does Larry Rothschild). Many believe that these mechanics, especially the manner in which you throw breaking pitches, increases stress on the elbow. I happen to agree that it increases stress on the elbow. Not saying it's right or wrong but many people wil disagree that he puts litlle stress on his arm.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 02:24 PM) The lying actually occured when both Maggs and Borass were parading around saying that Maggs was recovering just fine and that he would be working out for any team, yet when asked to he refused to do so, because he had just had a secret surgery done in Austria, but didn't want to tell anyone that. There was more crap in the BS that he threw at Ozzie and Kenny, but the lies were regarding the surgery and his supposed level of health. Everyone knew about the surgery when he was refrred there by the White sox podiatrist (his services were let go soon there after) and he was seen in Austria. That's why everyone was questioning the health of the knee. As for the workout you're right it went from I'll work out for anyone to I'll workout for anyone with written offer of "x" amount, knowing full well noone would do it until they saw the knee and records. Again not bargaining in good faith and probably misleading and lying about the health of the knee in the process. As I stated while this was happening, "I don't believe a word of it." As a matter of fact I would like to see the records on his "sports hernia" surgery which kept him out of most of last year, while coincidently allowed more time for his knee to heal. I still don't like the long term outlook of his knee.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) The problem with Boras is his lack of ethics. He lies, hides information and breaks his word. For documentation look at his dealings with Texas on the ARod deal (lied about other clubs offers), the whole Magglio situation (hid information on his injury) and backing away from an ARod deal he verbally agreed to with the White Sox (broke his word). While none of these is a crime, they are over the line of honorable dealing among honest men. A funny thing about him is JR describes him as good agent until the player hits free agency, then he becomes impossible to reason with or believe. What he did was not allow anyone to examine Magg's knee or examine the medical records until there was a confirmed written offer on the table. As you said this is not illegal but is not bargaining in good faith. I would not deal with him because of the manner in which he conducts his business either.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) 1. Still you can't deny Thome has not been in this sit before. There's still a risk. 2. I know that can happen. I think that's what happen to Belle. But before it gets that bad in will definitely reduce his quality of play. 3. You left out PH/DH. It's his role as a PH that intrigues me the most. If you are correct in stating he won't be healthy then why would any other team take the chance? Shouldn't the White Sox offer him a reasonable deal now that will allow him to rehab at Charlotte to drive ticket sales down there? Won't other teams try to do the same? It seems to me for his years of production offering him a $1M base + incentives with the possibility he might be able to play a PH/DH role in the 2nd half is a smart move. I'm still envisioning Pierre in CF & Ozzie using him at lead-off when he rests Pods. That's a perfect scenario to use Thomas as a PH late in the game & then replace Pierre with Pods. I don't think he would come back to PH. I think he'll get a better offer to DH elsewhere. The Sox have no room for an extra DH while many other teams can offer him for time for DH. I would love for him to come back in the role you stated, I just don't think it will happen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) Castillo's also a better hitter than Graffy is. I don't think Graffy is an every day player, as his short swing seems to get longer when he plays more than 3 or 4 days in a row. Especially with the ban on amphetamines now in effect

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 12:28 PM) I think it is way too early to be singing the swan song. So no matter how we fans want to spin it Thome is a rehabing player coming off major surgery. That is not a sure thing. As for Kong he did not receive a clean bill of health either. A degenerative hip disorder is a significant risk. I would say no less significant than Crede's back disorder. The general consensus with Thomas is that he came back to soon. So we can assume I think that he is going to take more time for the bone to heal this time around. That suggests to me the earliest he would be able to play for any team is after the all-star break. Adding a healthy Thomas to the bench for the 2nd half would act like a mid-season trade. So having Thomas as insurance for the 2nd half is a smart move for the White Sox to make. As long as KW doesn't say anything to offend Frank I think it's in the cards. You are off on a couple of assumptions. 1. Thome had a routine surgery which pitchers return from. A DH will have absolutely no problems returning from this. 2. A degenerative hip is potentially far worse than Crede's back. It will end his career. There is no definite time table but when his career ends it will be due to the hip. That's why the 5 year deal is a stretch. 3. Thomas will not be healthy, I've stated why many times. Do not count on Thomas being healthy. Now, if you want a DH who cannot run to play for a short period of time it may work.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 12:36 PM) A healthy Frank Thomas? Haven't seen one of those in a while. and you won't

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) I'm sorry, but a 6-7 year deal? Even AJ Burnett isn't trying to wing a 7 year deal. I can only think of 1 pitcher who's even managed to pull that off in history - Kevin Brown. Even Tim Hudson's contract Extension with the Braves was only a 4 year plan. Mike Hampton got an 8 year deal from the Rockies. I can tell you for a fact that the Sox will never give more than a 4-5 year deal to any pitcher. Even those years are unlikely. JR still remembers getting burned on the deals for Dotson, Hoyt and Burns. Dot went down with a shoulder injury and was never the same, Burns wnet down with a hip injury and retired in his 20's and the Sox found out about Hoyt affinity for mind altering substances and traded him for a couple decent players and a future WS winning manager. Remeber Alex Fernandez? He looked a whole lot better than Garland and the Sox refused his 5 year demand. He went to Florida injured his shoulder and disappaered. You can say what you want about what other teams will offer JG but the Sox will not offer him a long term deal. Rightfully so, because pitchers are too fragile (again my bias due to working with the injuries)

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) One would hope that he would get that operated on as soon as the offseason hit, but what do I know. That is correct about his injury, Hoever, with proper therapy most disc problems do not need surgery. I don't know the extent of his injury but it is entirely possible that he will not need it. Hermanson's injury was obviously much worse because he could not pitch with it. Crede only needed minimal time off for the back. The time he missed with the fractured finger helped his back, so he may have needed more time if the finger injury hadn't happened.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) I think he has a season of 130 or more games left in him. I really do I would love to see it. He was one of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen IMHO. However, I think he will fall into the category of "what would he have done if his career wasn't shortened by injuries" when we bring up his name in 20 years. that injury will be too difficult to come back from, especially consideringhe came back too soon from the first one and it didn't heal well.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) Im sick when people say we didnt win with Clee, Maggz, Thomas......thats because our pitching sucked back than... our closer was Koch blowing everything and we never had a 5th starter and Garland was mediocre at best. You throw in the pitching staff for the 2004, 2003, 2002 teams they make the playoffs and possibly win the WS too. I agree. However, with a finite budget back then (it's expanding now) it was proven that a team of sluggers adept at scoringruns with a poor pitching staff couldn't win. It was proven that the money put into the pitching staff insteadof the slugging run producers with a medicore offese can win the world series on a similar budget. That's all I'm saying. We couldn't have both so which one won out?

QUOTE(rudylaw @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) If Frank is healthy next year it would not surprise me to see him with beter numbers than Konerko or Thome frank will never be healthy again. He may be able to tolerate the pain enough to play (at least a little) but he will never be "healthy."

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 06:59 PM) The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Kenny or Ozzie think. If Frank can play.. IF.. Jerry will bring him back in some capasity. The fact right now is that Frank is still walking around in a boot and is still in pain. If the season started tomorrow he would retire. And it's my belief that that's what will happen. I agree. The first fracture was bad enough. Now getting a second fracture in a bone that small while the screw from the first surgery will be extremely difficult to come back from. With all of the previous foot problem and the stress he puts on it, I'm doubtful he will ever be near painfree. With all of that, unless something drastic happens I see retirement in the near future.

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) 3-4 months is what I heard. As of Friday 11/18 he had not yet had it. I'll see if I can get an update. thanks I would appreciate the update. I know I ask about the injuries but it's my field and my interest. If you don't want to post it for everyone you can always PM me. As with all rehabs some go well and some don't. Most athletes are in better shape than most people and the rehab goes faster. Hermy (Schneider not Dustin) is good at what he does so I don't see many complications.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:34 PM) Last I read, his back was making it harder and harder to pitch with any regularity. And with his age, and given the nature of lower back issues, I think it's likely. It has NOT been confirmed or reported, this is my own opinion, given his condition. Sorry, if some people have replied but I haven't read the entire thread yet. The surgery for his back will not require him to miss a year. The typical rehab is 3-6 months. I do not know if he has had surgery. Someone (i think Steff) said he was definitely going to have it. I haven't heard that personally but the rehab isn't long compared to others.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 09:17 AM) i would say the vast majority of Sox fans didn't know about it. People have known about it since his minor league days.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 11:41 PM) Isnt an arthritic hip what prematurely ended Albert Belle's career? I hope this isnt the same condition As Steff said it is, but it is not as advanced as what Belle's was at a similar age. It is a degenerative condition and there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. It just needs to be monitored to see the changes. The biggest thing is to maintain his flexibility to keep the range of motion needed to play.