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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) Jim, I saw earlier in the thread a suggestion of Marte + Sweeney for Pierre. Nomahhhhh! But I know you're also (somewhat) on board with that idea, so we're on the same page there. No. But, what correlates better to scoring runs? Batting average, or SLG%? It's SLG% -- and OBP, for that matter (not sure which correlates better, but I'm confident in saying SLG% and OBP correlate better to scoring runs than BA does). Pierre's OBP is very batting average heavy. So -- if he has a year in which he doesn't hit for a BA above .300 -- he ends up with a line like last year -- .276/.326/.354. Oh -- but I forgot about all the havoc he'll cause on the basepaths... Oh but I forgot, this is the formula the Sox used to win thn the World Series when the high SLG lineup of Mags, Thomas, Lee, Valentin etc. couldn't. Stats can show the run production and predict wins but the style we used last year always does better than the predictions. The Twins beat us when the run production predictions said we should have beat them and we beat EVERYBODY last year when the run production stats said we shouldn't have made the playoffs. Stats are fun for discussion but pitching and defense are the main components of winning. (sorry, end of rant)

I would be very reluctant to do a five year deal with anybody. I guess it's my bias because of the inuries I've seen. Hitters with chronic hip problems also worry me for a long term contract. All that being said, it would very tempting to sign him to the deal if it stays around 13 mil/year. If it goes much higher I would look for an alternative. If LA signs PK they won't need Kendry Morales or Kotchman, maybe we could trade for one of them.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 02:46 PM) Ventura got lowballed by Schueler. He made him an offer that wasn't close to what he was being offered elsewhere. I agree, Ordonez was ripped for his comments, but he also was called greedy. People should bow to him. If he re-signed with the Sox, the wait would be up to 89 years now. I don't think he was low balled ( ). The Sox made a fair offer, the Mets made him the highest paid third baseman at the time. I think the Sox turned out right because I don't think Ventura ever played like it. That being said he is one of my top three favorite Sox players of all time.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 06:41 PM) what is wrong with credes back? something about hernated discs? Yes, two herniated discs in the lumbar spine. Sometimes these can be treated conservatively without surgery and there are no siginificant reoccurances. Without knowing the severity it's hard to tell. If it can be done without surgery, Hermy should be able to help him through it. I think the we will know how severe it is by how much money they spend on a back up, as someone stated earlier.

Remember it will take two innings for Hernandez to warm up. Ozzie will need to plan well in advance to use him in the pen. Plus, is it worth it to have a guy pissed off to be in the pen and can only work sparingly? I just don't think it's a good fit for a whole year.

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 09:33 PM) Its now out that the Indians were also trying hard for Thome. The Phillies turned down a dealing centering around Coco Crisp and David Riske. Glad he is here and not with the Tribe. With what we had to give up to get Thome, I figured the Tribe must have been offering a pretty damn good package. If this is true, I would have taken the Tribe's offer. Maybe they wanted the Phillies to eat even more of the contract.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) I am convinced herm needs a trainer himself. I mean look at him when he waddles out... Don't you blasphem (sp?) in here!!!!!

I still don't think Hernandez can be a bullpen guy. With his shoulder condition it takes too long to warm up. I also don't think he'll accept it well and someone will need to bemoved from the rotation.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 07:53 AM) I agree. IMHO, Frank is a more productive player then Thome when healthy. They're both coming off injuries. Frank had a broken bone, Thome had elbow surgery (along with chronic back problems). Who's to say that Frank is higher risk to suffer another injury over Thome. Can Jim's right elbow handle the stress of 500+ plate appearances in a season + batting practice (need to have timing) and who knows how many swings he's going to take. The way I see this trade for the 2006 season is Anderson can do what Rownad did in 2005 so it's break even their. If PK leaves this trade looks great. If he stays then I don't see how this team is any better unless someone can guarantee that Thome will be healthy for a full season where as Frank wasn't healthy for most of 2005. It seems like a lot of risk (including financial) for very little reward considering that Thomas can hit 40+ HR's and have a ton of walks. Bob Believe me the Thomas injury is much worse. He had two separate fractures in a bone about an inch cubed in volume. The reason he didn't have a second surgery is that there is no room in the bone to do another one. Thomas' injury as I stated last seaon was career threatening with the first one let alone the second. He could very well be done. In contrast, Thome's elbow is fixed. It's a fairly routine procedure now. He is just doing rehab. The back may flair up but is definitely not career threatening at this point. There is minimal risk compared to Thomas.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:42 PM) I just hope your avatar doesn't happen to him, ouch! Actually, that is the motion that the ligament prevents. I didn't think of that before.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) I'd have to think that injury had an effect on his swing. Without being able to extend your elbows, you definately can't extend your hands and your going to have a lot of trouble. Thome is the type of guy that makes zero excuses, but there is no doubt in my mind it had an effect (hell I hope it did, otherwise we just made a mistake, lol). The injury did not effect his ability to straighten his elbow. The ligament in question keeps the forearm from going away from the humerus (valgus motion). This strtches the unlar nerve and the tissue on the inside of the elbow. It is nearly impossible to throw with this condition. Since he throwa righted and hits left handed its his front arm that is effected. This injury would cause pain or numbness in his hand and forearm on his follow through of the swing. My best guess is that he injured early in the season tried to play through it (which caused the poor performance) and shut it down due to the symptoms.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson. Just my 2 cents. I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco. Good suggestion though. The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo). Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone. The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley. He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse. Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team. All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:26 PM) Baldelli isn't that much better than Anderson, IMO. Maybe. He has proven hi9mself at the major league level and is definitely faster. He fits the "speed guy" Ozzie wants more than Anderson does.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:19 PM) Rafael Furcal moving to CF Darin Erstad (can't play CF really) Figgins (Angels won't deal him) Milton Bradley (Sox won't go for him...plus injury problems..plus not as fast as he used to be) Johnny Damon (probably too much money...hell of a hitter though) Vernon Wells (not a typical 2 hole hitter) Carl Crawford (I think he's over-rated) Ichiro??? Soriano (move him to CF) I still think Pierre makes the absolute most amount of sense. I was thinking Rocco Baldelli. Another guy coming off an injury on a team with a surplus at the position. KW might be able to swing a good deal with a new GM in Tampa.

QUOTE(GasHeGone @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 05:53 PM) Does anyone think Thome was on the juice and maybe that has something to do with his injury and horrible '05 stats? This is not the type of injury you get from steroid abuse. Those usually involve tendon or muscle problems (contractile tissue). Thome's injury was a ligament. (non-contractile). You can't definitely say it's not but it's very unlikely.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 05:11 PM) If you want to trust Pat Gillick, the new Philly GM's words, Thome is in the "Best condition he's been in for 3 or 4 years". With the rehab he is going through I don't doubt it.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) Well there's a reason why physicals are done. I'm definately going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's about 3 months into a 8-9 monthe rehab so he won't be totally healthy. He will be able to hit come ST but I doubt he'll be healthy enough to throw until the season begins.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) i would think theyd go konerko at 3 to alternate the lefty righty matchups... good point. If Pierre does come here that is likely especially agaisnt LHP.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:00 PM) somthing kinda like this maybe if get Pierre. i like i like Pods Pierre Konerko Thome Dye A.J Crede Iguchi Uribe Thome will hit 3rd with Konerko at cleanup

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 11:14 AM) Yes it does, lets all hope he can be healthy. More than that though I want Kong signed, both would be a dream. Thome is a much better option at DH than Frank at this point anyway. You hunches=Levine Carpet bombing He should be. While the surgery was needed and he is still rehabbing his elbow, it was a routine procedure and he shouldn't have any difficulty coming back without limitations.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 05:50 PM) How has age not come up in this thing? Boras does not put a gun to anyone's head, owners pay the money he wants. Brian Anderson is worth more to everyone except the Yankees. Juan Pierre is not that good. Gammons is an idiot on all things except the Red Sox and music you have never heard of. 1. You're right some owners will pay it, the Sox won't. 2. Gammons' favorite music is the Rolling Stones. Now, I may be old but I have heard of them.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) I don't think he minded it at all. He wasn't to happy when it sounded like he was going to be left off the playoff roster but he didnt care that he was in the pen. If any starter goes it will be him but I think there is a good chance he stays. There were a few newspaper reports that he wasn't happy. But I know from inside that he was very unhappy about it. Now maybe after an off season to think about it and his performance he may have changed his mind. But I doubt it.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) Nope. Ozzie, Cooper, Kenny, Jerry,The fans, ect... have all seen what happens when you only have 5 starters. There is no way that 1 of your 5 starters is going to miss some time over the season. Its going to happen. You need to be prepared. From 2001-2004, we were not. We just came off winning the World Series. The days of Danny Wright, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Josh Steweart, Mike Porzio, and others are over. If you have to have the 4 million dollar man in the bullpen, o' well(looks like the Cubs are going to have a few anyway ) Again, I agree in theory but I don't believe KW will have a 4 mil dollar guy in the bullpen who can only be used with 2 innings notice. Plus, Hernandez wasn't too thrilled about the situation last year. He won't tolerate it for a full year. IMHO one will need to go.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) I agree Rowand44. By trading Rowand to the Phillies for Thome OR By trading Crede to the Marlins for Pierre You will not lose one of our big pitchers. You could see some minor league talent in the deals but not B-Mac. I also believe Marte has seen his last days in Chicago, but that is just me. I believe KW will try to make deals without involving our pitchers. Pitching won us the ring. This is good in theory but then we have 6 starters. Who isn't starting and what do you do with that person? Does B-Mac go to the minors? He is not suited for the bullpen, he needs two innings notice to warmup. Do you have Hernandez in the bullpen? He has the same issues as B-Mac plus thats over 4 million for a long reliever. I think one of the starting pitchers will go somewhere in a deal.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) I was not saying Mueller > Crede. My biggest fear is that Crede goes to another team and becomes a superstar, but with his agent Joe will leave sooner rather than later. This is true. The Sox may put on a great face but I don't see them giving in to "Boras type" demands. I have been bashed for saying this but I don't believe the Sox will get a deal done with Boras. Which means KW will attempt to get something for Crede either this year or next year.