whitesoxfan101

I was in favor of bringing back Jermaine or Thome for one more year, but after watching this s*** lately, just get rid of all of the old f***s, or at least as many as possible.

Doesn't Viciedo have to play 1B? Is he really capable of playing adequate defense at any other spot?

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) He also has 10-and-5 rights, and I believe that Thome has a limited NTC clause that severely restricts where he can be traded. I don't see either of these guys getting dealt within the next 24 hours. I think Paulie will be dealt in the winter. For some reason, I have a hunch he'll allow a trade, although not just to anywhere, which unfortunately restricits his value and the amount of potential teams. Thome won't be dealt, he'll just be gone after the year. Might even retire.

Paulie will be dealt, assuming my memory is serving me correct and he only has 2010 left on his contract. He's not exactly what he once was, but he still has some sort of value I would think, even if minimal.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:08 PM) I don't see how it could have been good for financial support of the franchise selling off when you're only 1 or 2 games back. Well that's the problem, and the reason teams don't make white flag trades. What is best on the field isn't always best in the seats, and the fact that fans have so much power (at least in this case) can prove to be a really bad thing for franchises. The Sox would have been better off if the Tigers had played well and ran away and hid from everybody else in the month of June. Could have traded away veterans, and the fans wouldn't have got any more pissed since the Sox would have been 10 out anyways. It's not like attendance has been great this year anyways, so it wouldn't have hurt it that much in all likelihood.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:04 PM) I'm not just a mod, I'm the owner and when I see someone making absolutely ignorant statements I'll call him out for it. I don't care what you want to say, the stupidest thing the club could have done at that point was to sell everything (and this is coming from the same jackass, me, who wanted to sell the team in May). The only ignorance around here was people believing this team had a chance at being anything just because they beat up on some NL teams in June and were in the race because the AL Central is an absolute joke. Certainly, it would have been difficult to trade away the dinosaurus when we were only 3 games back or whatever it was at the deadline, even I will admit that much. But the fact is this team isn't good, has never been good, and now our long term prospects have taken a hit because we kept the old guys around for a race that was over before the month of September even started.

QUOTE (whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) i just threw it out there as a possibility. that it distinctively is.... btw...just think you wasted your precious life reading asinine things. isnt that enough to tell you something about how meaningless all this really is? its just a game anymore. fyi...gordon beckham is maybe going to be as good as scott fletcher was and GB is really the only thing to get excited about at the moment. this team is a mere image of other whitesox teams that never won jack but busted their asses day in and day out. if you couldnt see that then that just goes to show you how young alot of you really are. So you think it's a distinct possibility the Sox are losing on purpose?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:00 PM) Are you a jackass? Seriously, I understand I'm making a personal attack but my god, the team was barely out of 1st place and they acquired Jake Peavy. Why would they have moved Dye/Thome. That would have been suicide to the fan base and the waiving of a white flag. JR would never do that again after the PR hit the club took. It appears the jackasses around here are the people who were saying I was crazy all July for saying we should be in sell mode. You all were proven wrong, but I enjoy the fact you are reverting to personal attacks rather than admitting it. Great example to set as a moderator.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:58 PM) Because we were in a race and it's bad business to give up in July when you're like 2 games back. You know what's worse business? Not doing what's best for the long term interest of the franchise just because a mediocre division is keeping you close in the race. Now, we're not in the playoffs and are going to get nothing but hit or miss draft picks or nothing trade packages for our veterans who have collapse down the stretch. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:00 PM) Are you a jackass? Seriously, I understand I'm making a personal attack but my god, the team was barely out of 1st place and they acquired Jake Peavy. Why would they have moved Dye/Thome. That would have been suicide to the fan base and the waiving of a white flag. JR would never do that again after the PR hit the club took. It appears the jackasses around here are the people who were saying I was crazy all July for saying we should be in sell mode. You all were proven wrong, but I enjoy the fact you are reverting to personal attacks rather than admitting it. Great example to set as a moderator.

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:30 PM) The Rowand situation reminds me of the Ventura situation. Sending a guy away in his prime because he'll want too much money eventually. This teams problems have NOTHING to do with Aaron Rowand not being here. If that were our biggest problem, we would be in fantastic shape as a franchise. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 01:52 AM) So was Kenny just supposed to trade Dye at the all star break? Nobody in the world could have predicted he'd fall off a f***in cliff here in the 2nd half after being productive every year he's been here and playing at an all start level the first half of the season. Pods is the least of our problems, Konerko is right in line with his career stats and I'll give you Thome but it's not like he's been terrible this season either. I really don't see how you can blame Kenny for any of those guys. I'd have sold off any veteran I could in July, and people around here who have been reading my posts know I have been consistent with that all season. I agree with you that the falloff this team has had is very strange when you consider how we have seemingly got better on paper as the year went on, but I wanted a firesale in July becuase I was afraid something like this would happen in August (although even I am a bit surprised just how fast the fall has been).

Why wasn't this done in late July? Or a week ago for that matter? It's too late for this now, should have sold what parts we do have when we had the chance.

QUOTE (whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:37 PM) i will be the first to state that gambling might have a lot more to do with this teams overall performance than anyone can ever imagine. and that will be the last thing i ever say about that. Of all the asinine things I have ever seen posted on this board, this might be #1. We're throwing games again?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:07 PM) You just gave a list of people who have been underperforming and then gave excuses for each of them. One or two guys having down seasons I can understand. All of those things happening together...that's not supposed to happen. I gave "excuses" for two guys (and one is very legit IMO with Beckham). The rest of them are cases where we simply don't have adequate players. You can't blame Konerko, Thome, and Dye for being old, or Nix for being bad, or Pods reverting to the mediocre player he is. They are what they are.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 09:04 PM) should be a fire Kenny Williams poll. Uhh I started almost the exact same thread/poll on KW too...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) Because a number of the players flat out should be doing better than they currently are. Which ones? Beckham is a rookie that has been adjusted to, and perhaps is getting tired. Thome/Konerko/Dye are all old and it's late in the season, Quentin has been battling injuries all year, A.J. has been fine, Pods is coming back to earth as we'd all expect, Rios isn't very good, Nix isn't either, Ramirez at SS has been a failed experiment. I'm not overwhelming surprised by a single player in this lineup who is struggling right now.

I don't quite understand how so many people blame the players when the team is not really all that close to a playoff team. If you just barely miss the playoffs, it's because either the manager screwed it up and was the culprit behind a few losses, or the players just didn't perform down the stretch. However, in a season like this, when the team is below .500 and not very close to a playoff team, it's because you don't have good enough players. And if you don't have good enough players, it's the general managers fault, period. I still think we have a bright future, but this year not so much.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Aug 28, 2009 -> 10:32 PM) Oklahoma, with more violations. Not a dirtier football program around. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4430129 Even with their history, it's still going to take some shady activity to get blue chip prospects to go to Norman, Oklahoma.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:40 PM) Who would you rather see out there and for what price? That's the problem of us not developing a CF of our own or not picking one up the last few winters, the CF crop this winter sucks if i remember correctly (I think Mike Cameron is the best guy). But just because of that doesn't mean you make a move like picking up Rios. Perhaps the orgainzation thought Rios was the best option, but if that is your best option, all things considered, you have done an awful job at that position. And by picking up his money, it hinders us from fixing positions on the team where there is more help readily available on the free agent market.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) Both are TBD. Rios needs a season as the actual starting CF before I call anything on that, he could easily return to the player he was in Toronto. And I want to know what Peavy's condition is for the next couple years, let alone right now, before I call on that. I still like the Peavy move. And WSF1986, no I don't want to see Pods in CF next year, but I also don't want to see Rios for 11 million dollars out there for the next several.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) Hey, if the White Sox are willing to keep spending, it's a great move. It cost no players. Can't really make this point so bluntly until you know future payroll limitations. If theyre gonna keep adding talent, this will do. Offensive production out of the CF spot can be a whole heck of a lot lower than Alex Rios. Paying that much for that long for Alex Rios is very bad value, even if we have unlimited funds. He is nowhere near the player that contract says he is, and we volunteered to pick him up. QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) He got a 28 year old 5-tool player for no prospects. He took on the contract, alright. But, are you honestly going to b**** when Rios has the ability to put up a .800+ OPS and play a stellar CF while making $11 million a year? We're going to have him in the middle of his prime. He might not be hitting now, but he hasn't hit well all year. It's just a bad year for him in terms of luck. I'm just not seeing it with Rios, 11 million a year for several years for a guy with a lot of baggage and isn't hitting isn't an attractive idea to me. I voted for the be patient option in this poll, but that move and the Brandon Allen trade did Kenny no favors this season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) I don't know how you can get mad at him after getting Rios and Peavy. Now, if he didn't make those moves, I would have some issues. The Rios move was a TERRIBLE move.

Ok, Kenny's turn.

I think a lot of what we have seen this year has to be on Kenny's desk (and like I said, his approval/disapproval poll is coming soon). But I don't know how you could have watched this team lately and not say that their effort level is well below 100 percent right now, and that goes on Ozzie. Also, the fundementally braindead play we see from this team is a factor. Obviously, part of that is the players might not be too bright, but poor fundementals have to also go to the manager's desk to a certain degree as well.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:19 PM) I love how so many people here constantly call for the heads of coaches and managers, but express comparatively little outrage at the players' lack of execution. I don't want Ozzie fired yet, I will wait until I see how 2010 goes before I say that. And I am pretty upset at the players too, I probably want half of the roster to be gone after this season.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) None of these choices really address the issue or problem with this team, but I am not ready to throw Ozzie under the bus regardless Well what choice would you go with? A Kenny job approval/disapproval poll will probably be on the way soon as well, as I am in offseason mode now. My vote was he should be on the hot seat next year btw. The division will be there for the taking again, and I think we should be good enough to win it if Kenny does his job this winter (although I guess that's not a sure thing is it?)