Dam8610

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) We already have three guys in the system with legit ace ceilings in Giolito, Kopech, & Hansen in addition to Rodon. I'd much rather get a positional anchor than another high upside arm. Having said that, I wouldn't pass on a Glasnow & Bell deal if that was the best I could get for Quintana. I'd throw Lopez in that "ace ceiling" mix as well, which is all the more reason to go for a Meadows and Bell centric package from Pittsburgh. That said, Meadows and Glasnow would be nice as well, and if the Sox end up with the "problem" of having too much good pitching, we see what Sale brought and what Q is likely to bring.

200 IP 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 225 Ks Incidentally, why are all these threads called "Predict Thy Numbers" rather than "Predict The Numbers"?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Rank your trade partners: Yankees Pirates Rockies Rangers Astros I'd bump the Astros ahead of the Rangers, but that pretty much sums it up. Torres or Meadows would be huge gets.

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) Interesting take from a Pirates blogger http://piratesbreakdown.com/2016/12/21/pit...otential-trade/ No Meadows, no deal.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) http://www.baseballamerica.com/viewpoint/r...VWVFZhKWsxKw.97 Man, starting to look good. Soon we may be in place where our 15-20 guys are players like May/Engel that have potential to turn bats around and become major leaguers. They have Basabe ahead of Fulmer. Does that mean they have Basabe as Top 100, or that they're low on Fulmer?

.290/.320/.450 15 HR 30 SB That's a 4 WAR SS (with good D), right?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 06:12 PM) As I said in my post you quoted, there's not enough of those high OBP/power players to go around so if power is the desire then sometimes we have to take the strike outs that come with that power. And what I'm saying is that if the choice is between a big power, high K guy or a guy who makes better contact, has very good plate discipline, but doesn't have good power, I'd prefer to see the Sox gravitate toward the latter player.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 05:30 PM) I proposed something like OF Aaron Judge, OF Blake Rutherford, RHP Dillon Tate, and SS Wilkerman Garcia for Quintana. I think the Yanks would do that probably. I think Rutherford is a potential superstar and I'd be willing to take a chance on Judge's power potential 25 years old or not. White Sox also really liked Rutherford and Tate in their draft years. I'd be in favor of working something around Blake Rutherford but I understand those not in favor. If that's all the Yankees offer for Q, move on. Torres needs to be in the deal. So does one of Frazier or Rutherford (they're more likely to want to include Rutherford). Which of those two is in the deal would determine what other two pieces I would target.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) And every team in the league would love to fill their rosters with those types of players but the problem is there aren't enough high OBP power hitters that don't strike out alot to go round. Next best option is the Todd Frazier types where strike outs come with their power potential. As bad as the Sox offense was last year imagine how much worse they would have been without Frazier's 40 hr and 98 RBI. I don't deny past failures in the development of power hitters but I would rather see the Sox keep trying than give up. I would rather see the Sox target players they are more likely to succeed in developing than keep hitting their head into the brick wall of failure with these high K power guys.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) So the Sox should give up on power hitters then? What's the alternative? QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 03:11 PM) It's no coincidence that the Sox organization has shifted towards drafting and developing players who know how to get on base Collins and Fisher led the NCAA in OBP this past season The answer was right in front of (technically above) you(r post).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players then undertaking a rebuild was the absolute stupidest thing they could have done. I didn't say they couldn't develop any position players, just that they have a long history of failing at developing the ones that have flaws similar to Judge.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) Judge has huge power potential and that's pretty tantalizing to fans of a team that plays in a small park and yet does not hit enough home runs. I completely understand why Sox fans would want Judge, despite the fact I'd prefer other Yankee prospects over Judge. How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

Why does anyone want Judge? Put him in the Sox development system, and he's a guaranteed bust. His K rate is WAY too high, and the Sox don't know how to fix that. Give me Andujar over Judge every time.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Because he's the third piece. I don't love him, but we have space for a ML ready OF, and he has a bunch of upside. If we could get Rutherford instead of Judge, but still get Torres and Frazier, I'd prefer that, but I doubt that is going to happen. No way they'd give up all 3, maybe 2 if we're lucky. That said, I'd like to see the Sox avoid the high K power guys like Judge since they've shown they have trouble developing those types. I think Andujar would be more likely to develop well with the Sox, and makes the Yankees more likely to pull the trigger since he's not as highly ranked of a prospect.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) Frazier, Torres, Jude, and Fowler would get me giddy. I think you meant to say Judge here, but why? He's extremely likely to bust with his alarmingly high K rate and huge body that likely won't hold up. Think Adam Dunn, but with more Ks. I'd rather have Andujar, and I think he'll be the more successful player long term, despite his not being as highly rated as a prospect.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) I don't see us getting both Torres and Frazier. I think pick one of them and go from there. I'd go Torres (SS), Rutherford (OF), Andujar (3B), and Fowler (OF) for Quintana I actually like that package. Lots of potential and some limit to downside risk. I think Torres, Andujar, and Fowler would start in AA with Rutherford starting in A-.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Most people in baseball realize that the abstract concept of WAR, while valuable, is not the only way to value a pitcher. Most also realize that Q while a very good pitcher, is not the 4th best in baseball. However, the White sox will stick to this point as well because they really only wanted to trade Sale not Q. Thus we will hear from the Fo that they didn't deal Q because they couldn't get value for him. IMHO. 4th best in AL =/= 4th best in baseball. He's still Top 10, though, and I doubt many would deny that.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 02:24 PM) I would take the bolded over each package you mentioned (except a magical Bregman re-entry). The Yankees aren't going to give up all 3, but if they went temporarily insane and made the offer, I'd try to get the paperwork pushed through before Cashman got his wits about him again.

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Q gets traded to a GOOD team, and he's their number 1? His numbers are going to be way worse. If you don't understand that concept you are clueless. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/fip/ http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/era-fip-xfip/ http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/ Educate yourself, then come back to the conversation.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) I understand you, but let's assume with an actual second bidder that the astros would deal Musgrove, Martes and Tucker for Q. You have 2 near major leaguers there in Musgrove/Martes (musgrove is) The Yankees get involved but insist they need Frazier for next year but offer Gleybar Torres, Blake Rutherford, Andjuhar and Chance Adams Which would you take? Though inherently riskier, I would take Yankees package. I would also take the Yankees package there, but trade negotiations don't happen in a vacuum. I think that Yankees package would cause the Astros top go up to something more reasonable that might even be more worthwhile than that Yankees package, at which point you can either take that package or see if you can get the Yankees to budge on Frazier.

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) He's a number 2. He wasnt even a number 1 on a bad team. Ever. Being a number 1, on a good team, is something Q hasnt even approached. Abreu and Ordonez get/got most of their "numbers" when their team is/was buried. Quintana has much to prove to ever be considered a 1. He wasn't a #1 on the White Sox because they also happened to have a Top 3-5 pitcher in all of baseball, his name is Chris Sale, you may have heard of him. Being the White Sox #2 behind Sale makes Q no less of a top 10 pitcher in all of baseball over the last 4 years, and if a top 10 pitcher in MLB isn't an Ace, I don't know what is.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:45 PM) I would for the right rookies and a ballers because I don't find that to be a helpful descriptor for the type of talent you are getting back. I value Torres much higher than Judge even though Judge made show last year. I get that the potential can be higher on the younger guys, but the bust rate is a lot higher. I'm not saying take a Judge over a Torres, that would be insane (incidentally, Judge is the type of player I could see the Sox FO falling in love with that they need to avoid like the plague). What I'm saying is if you're taking a Torres for a Q, that's not nearly enough and I'd rather have a Frazier than a Rutherford as the second piece so that we're not looking at extremely high bust rates on the whole return. Like it or not, someone who's made it to AAA while maintaining their prospect status is a lot more likely to give you a solid everyday contributor than the guy who may someday be a superstar, but is in A ball today.

QUOTE (almagest @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) I was expecting proposals like "We'll give them Texiera and Headley for Quintana, Robertson and Frazier" but those are all actually sane. They seem to be thinking the same as us - they've got a ton of hitting prospects and we have the pitching they used to have need. Yeah, a couple of them started at Torres + Frazier and said more would need to be added.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) MLB Network: "Quintana isn't an ace, he's a solid #2." I swear Quintana could be an All-Star for the next three years, win a Cy Young and 20 games and people would still go "Well, he's good but..." A top 10 pitcher in baseball for the last 4 years is a #2? Tough to be an Ace these days.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) My problem isn't necessarily with a Torres/Frazier package, it's mostly how our hypotheticals throw in additional top 100 prospects like they are of little consequence. I think the above trade is closer to possilbe but it would not shock me if Frazier is one Yanks want to keep due to him being a reasonable bet for 2017. Would you trade Q for a bunch of rookie and A ballers? I wouldn't, too much risk.