chitownsportsfan

that post should be stickied somewhere imo, great breakdown.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 10:23 PM) The odds of a current major leaguer contributing are so much incredibly higher than any draft pick, it isn't even funny. We benefit WAY more by the guys that are here learning the lessons they need, than we do with getting five picks higher. Right, and, just as important, they can see WTF THEY HAVE. There really wasn't much more for Sanchez to prove in AAA, ditto Marcus. I want them to freaking bench Viciedo once Sierra is back as well, now is the time to do some scouting of your own talent and throw some guys into the fire. Yea it's a small sample size, but Sanchez and Marcus should both be getting quite a few AB in Sep, ditto Moises.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 10:24 PM) Rodon's coaches at NC State had a habit of keeping Rodon out there way past 100 pitches. He can go that far, the question is whether we want him to. The answer is no. On the flip side he's only at like 105 innings total for the year, that is probably on the low side of where they'd want him maybe 150? My concern was more just "maintaining stuff". I don't know how effective he can be as a rookie that really don't know how to pace himself at MLB level. Of course, getting that experience is part of why maybe they should bring him up.

Also, I saw on twitter through 2nd hand account (so caveat emptor) that a scout in attendance had Rodon mostly around 93, topping out at 95 on occasion. The key will be knowing he can hit that when he's not just going ~80 pitches. Building endurance is going to be the most difficult part IMO if he comes up this year. I'd expect 5 or 6 innings a start at most and fading stuff as he gets past 80.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 09:25 PM) OK. It just drives me crazy is all. I'd let those 3 guys go and go for an all new crew. If I had to keep one, it'd be Putnam I guess. With all due respect, Beckham is a great argument against advanced stats. You can't tell me he was valuable to the White Sox in any way during his tenure. You can't tell me we couldn't have had a different second baseman every one of those years with the same impact on the team. Some minimum salary free agent each year. I mean, cmon. If Beckham is considered valuable in any way, that advanced stat is just WRONG. Seriously. There has to be some value to the eye test and the common stat. Beckham was a lousy No. 8 draft pick. If he's better than most, than teams have drafted poorly at No. 8 that is FOR SURE. Enough is enough. How can anybody say Beckham was valuable in any way? He was a decent to good fielder who couldn't hit a lick. Why do we need WAR to tell us some fib?? Fine them, pick games played in MLB as your metric for a #8 pick and the distribution will be similar -- for an 8th pick, Gordon was better than most. It's hard for me to believe you can be this dense. It's not necessarily about WAR, although as a measure of total value it's better than games placed WAR is mostly a counting stat and MLB players that are below replacement (hint: it's a sign the stat is pretty accurate) don't tend to last too long in MLB so games played will work fine. You should really learn more about MLB, no offense. Trying to argue Gordon Beckham wasn't a good draft pick isn't going to get you anywhere, go through every #8 pick in history and Beckham is going to lineup on the "better than most" side. here, educate yourself: basically, it's not a normal distribution, that's the takeway. It's a "fat tail" and value is clumped in picks 1-3 and in general in the top 15. Would you put the over/under on Rodon's career fWAR at 15? According to the graph that would be a wild over estimate. That said, Carlos could skew the results http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/6/25...are-draft-picks

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 09:26 PM) Whether Rodon comes up tomorrow or at the start of next year, a player cannot be a free agent until he has a minimum 6 full years service team. He will be a free agent in 2021 unless they wait until after opening day to bring him up next year. Then it would be 2022, but he would then be Super 2 and have 4 arb years. Thanks. The "6 full years" clears it up. I'm still not convinced it's a great idea to bring him up this September, but if they planning on a big '15 offseason push it makes sense as he'll be in the rotation next April anyways sounds like and that will mean super 2 regardless.

this is what I found: So basically if he gets added to the 40 man this year it gives the Sox 6 more years until FA instead of 7? If so, that is not good.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 06:59 PM) Service time bro. If you think Rodon should break camp with the Sox next spring (and that's clearly a good debate in its own right) then you should be in favor of him tasting the show this year. I can't see it doing anything but be a help to that young man...if he's ready, which it sure is starting to look like. Yes but my question is does it quicken his arrival at to FA? Wouldn't it be an extra "year" on a MLB roster?

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 06:39 PM) If Rodon starts with the big league team next year, a September call up does nothing to his arb clock. Is that because he'd 100% be a super 2 if he came up next April?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) What you can't get in AAA or the AFL is an experience pitching in The Show. Gets him an opportunity to face some butterflies and come into '15 "experienced". Either way, bet your ass this offseason and next spring he'll be working the change and on control. I enjoy that we are having this debate. So far Rodon is blowing through even the most optimistic expectations. It looks like Chicago might have the top pitching prospect in all of MLB, not just this draft. If the Sox handle him right they could have the most devastating top 3 rotation since the Maddox/Glavine/Smoltz trio led Atlanta to half a dozen division titles. Seriously, Sale, Rodon, Q would be filthy.

hi8is -- I just don't see how a couple starts in September in MLB in any shape or form prepares him better to contribute at the MLB level in '15 then another couple in AAA and then the AFL. He isn't going to be "working on his changeup" when he's got the bases loaded and is tied 3-3 at pitch number 80 in the 5th inning with two outs -- he's gonna be rearing back and throwing 95 or throwing that slide piece. While those might get hitters out short term long term we all know the key will be the changeup and developing command on his fastball -- things he'd improve more quickly on in the non win at all costs environment of the minors. That's just my opinion I certainly respect the job Cooper and the Sox do developing starters.

I don't really get the rush to get him up to MLB. Clearly he is highly advanced and his stuff is MLB ready now but I really don't think it's in Rodon's (and Chicago's) best long term interests to come up, make a couple 5-6 inning starts and start the arb clock a year early when he could have just made a few more starts in AAA and then head to the AFL with a big fat ZERO next to MLB service time entering '15.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) 0 for 7 with 9 runners left on base and 2 strike outs since joining LA. s***ty hitter continues to be s***, more at 11.

lol robin got clowned

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:56 PM) Sox need a good everyday LF in the worst way. Take ADA and DV money and get one in 2015. Marcus Semian?

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) He makes up for the D with his high OBP, impressive slugging average and blazing speed on the bases. He has 1 tool -- arm.

I am sick of Viciedo.

platoon that!

QUOTE (1dog @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) Lol I think Beckham is terrible and was ecstatic to see him go. I should have added that he is not an MLB player either. Was basically just agreeing with Friend of Nordhagen. Couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe Hawk just loves all 2B? He doesn't fawn over ADA's idiocy. Lol ah, yea, I thought you were talking about Sanchez relative to Gordo, lol

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) Hahn mentioned they've thought about it. I don't really think it's a good idea I'd rather just get him a platoon partner and have him continue to try and improve at 3B.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) Offense MIA in NYC. Conor really needs a platoon partner and in general Avi is still working back, Eaton is out and Jose isn't in beast mode right now so tough to string together many hits. Don't get me wrong Jose is amazing I love that he's not just a slugger but him hitting singles and doubles and taking a few walks just isn't going to to much in this offense, not until they get more around him.

QUOTE (1dog @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:09 PM) Absolutely infuriating. He's not a Beckham, and not a Major League Baseball player. Period. Didn't know Gordo's mom posted here!

lost in that is that he compared Andy WIlkins to Abreu.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2014 -> 12:11 AM) The Will To Win argument comes full circle, lol. How to quantify it? If we can't put a number to it, the idea of mental weakness/intestinal fortitude/clutch...then it therefore doesn't exist. Ozzie put it well, when asked about if curses or mental obstacles caused the world series drought in Chicago: "no, just a bunch of $hitty ballplayers". Same thing with The Will To Win

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:33 PM) I don't think I've heard anyone here say Avisail Garcia sucks. (yet) I agree with you to an extent though. Projections and scouts both love Avi and so should Sox fans. Give him a full season you're going to see 270-290 with 15-25 HR and a decent OBP. In a few more years, he could way past that. Also, his defense since coming back has looked much improved. We know he can run a bit as well. A 4 tool player. I put him as "star" in my analysis the other night and I think if he stays healthy he'll have a long productive career on the South Side.