chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:53 PM) http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/four-y...bled-chris-sale Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Are Sale's teammates trolling him with the song in the background? nice link but I can't stand that website can't pause the vids, awful

Oh yea Marte. Also while doing some research for this thread I ran across the name: Mike MacDougal. Also, Nick Massett was a thing for a minute. Coop can't fix'em all -- but overall the Sox have acquired so much low cost above replacement pitching it's kept them afloat and papered over a really bad position player development history.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) I'm getting excited! This will be my first Sox game this year. I'm leaving the office in about an hour.. who all is going? I'm sitting about 20 feet to the right of the Sox dugout. So glad Abreu is back! That's awesome man enjoy the game. It will be a packed crowd tonight stay safe with some of those nuts at Chavez Ravine around.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:32 PM) Examples? I assume you're talking about pitchers we've brought in from other organizations, moreso than the pitchers the White Sox have drafted over the Don Cooper years. Jenks and Santos, Floyd, Danks (pre-surgery), Contreras, Sale? Santiago? (Certainly hasn't worked with Paulino or Cleto). Our biggest success story of the last five years is Quintana, who profiles more like an A's pitching find, even though he does throw 92-93, which is very solid for a lefty. Thornton, Sale, Contreras, Hector, Santos, Jenks, Jones, Edwin Jackson off the top of my head. Jackson was actually pretty damn good his season under Cooper then went back to being the exact same guy after he left.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:17 PM) Traded, I might add, as a low level minor league throw in from the Cubs in the Rich Harden deal. That is one I think is important. When you trade away guys, steal some lottery tickets from a team's lowest minor league levels. I certainly think that you have to have a philosophy as an organization about the type of player you think you can work with and those that you can't. Chicago seemingly just realized they can't take every toolsy football player and teach him baseball. On the flip side, taking hard throwers and turning them into pitchers -- they've had a lot of success there. Agree that you have to give yourself a bunch of lotto tickets and the Sox are doing better with that by signing the latin guys. Only 1 in 20 might pan out but if you strike a superstar on that 1 guy it's totally worth it. In a way, that's what they've been trying to do with all the toolsy outfielders they've drafted but you have to wonder if the Sox are doing something wrong wrt to player development if none of those guys pans out -- certainly Hawkins will be a litmus test. I mean look at the Royals, those guys make the Sox' track record on position player development look downright Bean esque. They had the top rated farm system for seemingly half a decade and hardly any of those guys developed.

eh, if it was so easy everyone would do it. Donaldson is like an 7-8 WAR player, that's a pretty f***ing good foundation. Basically it comes down to "find really good players". I mean, giving Donaldson 160 some PA before he went "poof, 8 war player" is some sort of guide? I RTFA and I just don't see it, so much of this stuff is just hindsight bias. The A's are really good at finding guys good at baseball. That's a combination of scouting, sabermetrics and luck, with luck being perhaps the most important -- see every playoff series since Beane took over. His s*** doesn't work in the playoffs, and most team's s*** doesn't work in teh regular season without a good deal of luck. Especially when you're working on the margins as a mid to small market team.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 2, 2014 -> 06:14 PM) Jose Fernández got picked and he is currently broken. Yea that's brutal. It's ESPN and their motley crew of old and new school analysts so whatever, but that is just brutal. The critique of Sale pretty much boils down to "he could explode", ignoring the fact that the guy just put together a very healthy two seasons, averaging over 190ip, and so far -- knock on wood -- this year it looks like he'll go over the 160 mark again. Chris Sale is chronically under hyped. It's pretty bad. Not even on Baseball Think Factory does he even garner much attention. He's basically been the best pitcher in the AL by fWAR over the last 3 years and he gets talked about 1/2 of guys like Verlander, Scherzer, Darvish, etc.

I was at the Mariners and Tigers afternoon game yesterday. It was a 4-0 Mariners win that took over 2:40 minutes. There was literally no action from the Tigers other than a scattered hit or two and a walk. Luckily Elias likes to work fast, but Scherzer and Coke were ridiculous. I would like to see a rule much like the PGA Tour does where if you take too long eventually you get a warning and they put you on a clock. If you still take to long after the warning it's a balk. I don't think asking the pitcher to take less than 15 seconds between receiving the ball and throwing / pickoff is too much to ask.

not watching the game just following the box but good god seems like hitting with RISP has been horse s*** for 2 weeks now.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ May 31, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) I played against him in regionals. I played for Aurora University. Jirchele went 0-3 against us. But they beat us 3-2. Nice, one thing about us DIII guys, we still make great softball ringers.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 30, 2014 -> 10:10 PM) Who? I have never heard of him I just googled him, ha, he's a left handed hitting outfielder that played DIII baseball, just like yours truely, but unlike me he was a superstar on a really good team that won the DIII title his senior year and then got signed to a minor league deal after going undrafted. Has good bloodlines as his father and brother also played pro ball, albeit without making MLB. He's hitting over .500 for the Dash in an extremely small sample size. Is also already 24, so would be a minor miracle if he ever panned out into anything other than org filler. Still, good story and always nice to see DIII guys in pro ball. Guy I played against in the GLIAC Jim Dieters was drafted in the 30th round by the Indians but never made it above A ball after suffering an injury.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 30, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) I think it depends on how far away we really are and if you can eventually turn Quintana into 2 or more valuable pieces. Sale is a bit different in that true aces are so hard to find, yet his health will always be a concern. If you can swing a Ricky Williams type deal for him, you have to take it. And that "true ace" can still only pitch at most twice in a 7 game series. You need front line starters to win in the post season, with Quintana the Sox already have 2. If they can get one more, they'd be set. Hey the draft is next week...

No, because nobody is going to give you equal value. If someone wants to offer a Wil Myers type deal up then yea do it, but Dayton Moore probably isn't walking through that door.

hey beautox me and you we start a newsletter...

Grades are on a curve for roster spot, if at all: A+ Chris Sale -- won't knock him for the injury as he should have never gone that many pitches in April. Is essentially unhittable when healthy with a whip of .689 and a k/bb ratio of 5/1. Every pitch in arsenal is deadly right now: fb, sl, ch. A+ Alexei Ramirez -- has done everything you'd want, is playing at an elite level A Conor Gillaspie -- has a wRC+ of 136 and has played solid defense A- Jose Quintana -- hard luck at times but peripherals and velocity are as good as ever. A- Jose Abreu -- needs to take his walks and realize he's no good when hurt (stay off the feet more before, after in between games) but power is as advertised, also gave lineup a completely different "feel", which was needed A- Tyler Flowers -- stays healthy, a major key for a catcher, and has improved his approach at the plate enough to probably become a steady 270/330/400 hitter. Props to him. A- Ronald Belisario -- has pitched a number of high leverage innings and come through more often than not. Blew a save the other day but it happens. Scary to think were the pen would be without him. B+ Gordon Beckham -- has hit like he was supposed to when drafted and defense has been good as well. Some really key turns. Still in "show me" mode wrt to long term role on team and can he stay healthy? B Adam Dunn -- is getting on base and hitting for power but with DH his best position value is limited B Adrian Nieto -- framing is rough and at times will get the bat knocked out of his hands, but a backup catcher hitting over 300 is pretty damn good SSS be damned B- Andre Rienzo -- needs to harness his control but is striking out enough batters to where if you squint hard enough you can see a solid MLB #4 starter C+ Adam Eaton -- has slumped down to an OPS below 700 and cannot stay healthy. When healthy has shown flashes of being a long term above average starter in CF. Solid defense and baserunning. C+ Dayan Viciedo -- improved his walk rate considerably and is hitting just enough to stay as a regular despite poor defense in the corners C+ Hector Noesi -- has hung tough and shows flashes of being a legit MLB back end starter, much like Rienzo has grooved a few too many pitches but when on has enough stuff to get hitters out consistently C - Bullpen, sans Bellisario. They've combined to be alright, not going to do individual grades for guys that have mostly have pitched 20 innings or less. Belly gets an A-, he's been good and has pitched the most in high leverage. C- Garcia, Semian, Moises -- rest of the bench brigade has been serviceable. Garcia has had his moments as has Semian but overall production is what you'd expect from bench players. C- Scott Caroll -- much like Dylan Axelrod is a journeyman completely devoid of MLB caliber stuff outside of a decent sinker, and like Axelrod has maximized what he does have. Possible upside as a decent long man but not a starter. D+ John Danks -- has lost even more velocity on average and has not been able to spot his pitches well enough to succeed. Is on an upward tick but overall has been poor. D Alejandro De Aza -- looks completely lost at the plate after a hot start. Needs to get back to what made him successful and that is looking up the middle not trying to pull everything. Could easily be given an "F" D Erik Johnson -- lost velocity and at times has appeared mentally unsure of himself by nibbling. Could possibly be injured but regardless not good enough to warrant a spot on the MLB roster D- Paul Konerko -- bat speed of a 38 year old is obvious as he fouls fastball after fastball back to the screen. Has an OPS below 500 and quite frankly could easily be given an F. Over his last 160 games he has an fWAR of -2.5. He's toast. F: Felipe Paulino -- no redeeming qualities, will be DFA shortly most likely. INC: Avisail Garcia Coaches: Ventura: D+ Continues to make a number of head scratching tactical decisions and some very dangerous ones as well -- playing Abreu through pain and letting Sale go over 120 pitches. Team does appear to play hard for him and appears "loose" -- but where was his pixie dust last year? Stevenson: A+ -- has guys buying into his approach. Has made Flowers and Viciedo into more patient, dangerous hitters. Deserves a lot of credit for that IMO, guys are buying what he's selling and coming from Oakland he had a lot of cache -- he's using it well. Cooper: B-- As Robin's point man on the pitching staff has let Robin get too matchup happy at times and also had a role in the Paulino decision which has not worked out at all. Has done his usual good work with Noesi and Rienzo.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) I'll quote Hawk too. He Gawn! You should be banned but you keep the post count high on the site so on 2nd thought maybe they should pay you CPI style.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 29, 2014 -> 06:33 PM) That's a big deal actually. I'm not sold on him yet but I do think there's a chance at least now that he's a major league starter. We'll see going forward. For sure, you look at a guy like Carroll and its' easy to see he'll never be a decent 4th or 5th starter, he just doesn't have enough stuff to get MLB hitters out, especially the 2nd and 3rd time through. Hector on the other hand actually has a decent FB and a good curve. If he can continue to work on a repeatable consistent delivery that allows him to spot his stuff better he might have a nice little career. Plus he's a dead ringer for Sweaty Freddie with the delivery and olive complexion, so I like that. Always will have a lot of respect for Freddie.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 29, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) What about Jimenez's xFIP though? It's 3.97, he's had bad luck on HR/FB%.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 29, 2014 -> 05:39 PM) Oh you're using the 3 WAR as a defense for him -- I thought you were being sarcastic. I actually think you have a legitimate argument here, and have stated so. The problem isn't Paulino, it's that if you're going to take that kind of gamble, you need more depth so you aren't screwed when it goes wrong. They should have, at least, made it a priority to sign three Paulino-like guys. What I don't agree with is Ubaldo being the answer. It looked risky and costly at the time, and now it looks even worse with his early season performance. If it was so easy, every team would have 5th starter A, B, C and D ready to go for the inevitable injuries, and yet every year most teams will dip into their 6th and 7th starters and those guys will be replacement level. Pitching is scarce and the Sox do as good a job as anyone of finding it, especially given their budget constraints. This isn't a team that can spend on starting pitching in the FA market so they have to do things like scrape the waiver wire. Given that this was always going to be a throwaway season record wise it simply made no sense to spend any many on the pitching above league min.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 29, 2014 -> 05:52 PM) I am impressed with Noesi. He just seems to be getting better each time out. He actually has decent stuff, certainly decent enough to be a 5th starter. As long as he can avoid the gopherball grooved fastballs he should be alright in that role. I changed my opinion on him last night from "nope, AAAA material" to "hmm, might actually be a decent 5th starter". It's not much, but it's something.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2014 -> 03:28 PM) I can totally see why. He is a really low baseball IQ player. He misses cut off men regularly, and doesn't have any patience at the plate. I wouldn't necessarily say he's a low IQ player just that he's a flawed player in the sense that he's most suited to a bench role. I certainly like him more than Danks and it's good that Chicago was proactive in finding a decent outfielder once Avisail went down.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:32 PM) Pride hurt after getting robbed at the fence? Robin plays him against a though righty then sits him against a soft tossing lefty, go figure.

so is kong injured or something?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2014 -> 07:51 PM) Some horrible swings vs House so far. Still can't get over that PK isn't facing a LHP, yet faced Masterson last night. Robin Ventura continues to confound.

We should do what I occasionly do on OOTP and that's just start the game with a reliever and hope he can give you 3 good innings and go from there. I'm only half kidding, Noesi is cannon fodder.