Balta1701

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) I think 2011 is what killed his value. People still see that season and are scared that version of him could return and it's too much money to take on to risk that. It's not just that. He's actually overpaid for the amount he produces. As a near-full-time DH he's worth about $8 million in the fangraphs world (that was his value in 2012 when he was sorta adequate at 1b and didn't hurt himself much or help himself much). He's paid $14 million a year, so that's a $6 million a year premium you're paying for him. He's likely to put up $9-$10 million of value for a team as a DH over the next 1.33 seasons, which means that the Sox would have to pick up $7-8 million or so for a team to break even on him, again in the fangraphs world. The Sox aren't going to pick up $8 million of Adam's deal unless you give them a good reason to. They're not so desperate for funds or playing time that they're going to dump him to save 1/2 of his deal.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) ITs confusing because, yes, it is Rodon... also yes, we already HAVE a Rondon too, in the system from the Peavy trade. And then there is the Detroit fireball pitcher too, just to make it a trifecta. The guy we are talking about draft-wise is Rodon. Well thank you. I learned something. And Knowing is half the battle.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) We were in it until the end for Soler apparently. And that was before we shed 27 million dollars towards our 2014 payroll. This really does have the White Sox written all over it. He even literally plays a position where we need someone. The only reason to not do this is if the scouts think he's inherently flawed or too far behind since he hasn't yet faced MLB pitching regularly. I could understand that. Otherwise...this would be the kind of aggressive bet I'd love to see.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) Except how easy is it going to be to acquire a High A or AA starter with even better potential than Santiago/Quintana...? Not very. I dunno, we seemed to come up with Santiago and Quintana pretty much out of nowhere.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 02:41 AM) God I'm tired of people calling Carlos Rodon "Rondon." Secondly, still way too early to judge right now. Other than Rodon, it's still pretty much wide open. A guy like Beede, Toussaint, (who I'm personally high on) Turner, Jackson, Burdi, Cederoth, Hoffman etc. could all sneak in the top 3-5 discussion. Really, it's Rodon? Nearly everyone I've seen here has called him Rondon. I just thought that was his name.

"Sale one of five best contracts in baseball" = headline. "Sale is the 6th best contract in baseball" = actual article. Meh, close enough.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 09:14 AM) He's older than 23, so there would be no restrictions. This is the guy that has all of the Cuban homerun records and stuff. Got a lot of press when Cespedes defected because every time someone wanted to make a claim about Cespedes' monster numbers, it was alwways "and he has the most xxxxxxx of any player in Cuba (except Abreu)!!!" And he plays 1b? And is still in his prime years? Ok, yeah, I'm in for 7/$60 and you can put me down as switching from the "Sign Morales" camp to the "Sign Abreu" camp.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 08:38 PM) As long as Balta is in charge of fundamentals and Josh Phegley improvements in 2014 Spring Training, things will go quite smoothly. It's an EVEN numbered year, after all. This isn't a star trek movie.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 07:32 AM) Disagree. Each of the last three years Dunn has started poorly. Really bad this year. What makes you think it will be different next year? If we have a chance to purge him, do it. Because we're not going to just get to purge him. That should be clear based on the fact that he cleared waivers. We'd have to chip in some portion of the $17 million remaining on his contract. Since there's no one pushing for the 1b/DH slot from the minors, it doesn't make sense to add in $10 million+ unless someone is giving us a reason to do so by returning an actual bit of talent in the deal. We may as well hold onto him and consider his contract a sunk cost. What's the worst that happens, we pay $17 million and he struggles somewhat for the rest of the deal? He's not costing anyone at bats right now. And maybe there's some upside. Maybe someone does offer something useful for him in the offseason or next year at the deadline, or maybe some of the remaining talent on the ChiSox roster steps up next year and Dunn becomes a fairly good run producer at the bottom of the order.

Wasn't Jose Abreu the guy who was supposed to make Puig look like crap? Cuba was supposed to have one legendary ballplayer left and I think that was his name. What are the rules here, how would we have to do this? Does he fall under the international signing caps? Do we basically get "him and no other international signings for 2 years" if we offer him big money?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) Axelrod cannot pitch relief or starting. We are done here. Someone please notify Ventura 4 IP, 3 hits, 0 BB, 3 K's, 0 ER, CSN player of the game.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 03:52 PM) And that's why OPS and WAR and fWAR notwithstanding, DeAza's not going to fetch much in the offseason and is still a candidate for non-tendering. That'd be lunacy. We need a coach who can get to him. Like Robin Ventura did in 2012.

And there that goes. At least the broadcast has been fun.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 03:18 PM) Kittle giving Phegley a shoutout for a young player he likes. This is a fun broadcast (no offense Hawk)

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) Elysium got very mixed reviews. Of about the 7 or 8 people I know that have seen it, 4 said it was terrible, 4 said it was really good. I'd say I've heard very similar commentary. This seems like a redbox rental early next year for me.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) What's the latest on his secondary stuff and command/control? At 96, he runs the risk of being no better than Nate Jones. Maybe Montas could figure in as early as next year, also...? Um...great?

With where we are now, I really like the idea of going after Morales. We simply have a gaping hole at 1b next year. Konerko shouldn't be brought back even if he wants to come back. Morales on a 2-3 year deal fills that hole and he can move to DH if we ever get someone to fill that role Add at least 1 bullpen arm. Maybe 2, if we need a lefty also (although we have a bunch of candidates who could fill that role). Any young guy you're giving up on...you give up on him because of what you know and no other team does. You give up on him because of how he's taking to coaching. Oh, and find a new manager who can make these players look like they care about playing again, the way they did in 2012. Would rather lose games with guys who look like they care than this comedy of errors.

LOL the Twins announcer pronouncing Tekotte as "Tecate". LOL De Aza's quality baserunning continuing.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 05:05 PM) Let me know when Phegley was rated as one of the 50 best prospects in all of baseball. Quentin was rated as BA's #22 and #20 prospect in 2004 and 2005 respectively. Phegley isn't (even after his AAA season) a top 200 prospect...probably not a top 250 prospect. How many guys are ranked in the top 50 prospects in all of baseball when they're on the DL having their spleen removed? Come on man.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) Come on...I've forgotten more about the White Sox system then most people ever knew about our minor leagues. I know damn well about Phegley and you are just being a pompous ass. You are just uttering a bunch of nonsense. No baseball team or organization would ever run themselves the way you are claiming. Maybe the Padres or some loser organization that has a 30M payroll but let me know when the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Braves start handing at bats to middling prospects just because they had one great year in AAA. They hand their at bats to good prospects and the medicore ones get a little shot and then are gone. And the medciore prospects in some of those systems would be good prospects in our system. The solution to player development isn't just giving guys that aren't very good more at bats. That doesn't prove anything. I really wish you were here when people were furious in May that Phegley wasn't up yet and declaring him the next big thing.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 04:54 PM) Brian, there is a major difference in expectations of a 24/25 year old coming up who basically had played 1.5 years in AAA, had time in AA then there is for the AA kid coming up early when you are out of contention who you know still has a ways to go. If someone like Mike Trout at 19 comes up and struggles, I'm not calling him s***. When a 25 year old comes up and if he finishes the year hitting .210 showing no progress (given his past history and non-elite toolset, not top prospect, etc), I'm not giving him much time. Most of an organizations mediocre prospects could be so lucky to get 60 games to prove themselves. The better organizations in baseball are giving their developmental bats to far more worthy prospects then some of the people the Sox are giving at bats too and it would be ignorant to think 60 games (+ a long minor league career) isn't a valid sample size to make long-term talent evaluations and expectations. If you're not paying any attention to the circumstances that caused Josh Phegley to be a 25 year old repeating Charlotte then you're totally missing the boat. In a normal progression he'd have been 24 this year but he totally lost a year, and they still continued to promote him rather than having him repeat the level he would have been at before his serious medical issues started. The better organizations in baseball realize when a guy with talent had a setback that he overcame. They don't cast them aside based on the number. That's literally why we have De Aza, for example. The Marlins cast him aside for other guys and we got a very solid MLB player out of it.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) I'm wrong all the time but your argument of everyone needs 2 years at the major league level to put up or shut up is complete nonsense and takes all the brains out of running and organization and having talent evaluators and drastically reduces the odds of turning good players. You need to make bets based upon your reports and use those reports and your knowledge to make educated guesses so that the guys you do give opportunities have higher rates of succeeding and turning into above average players. This way you give developmental time to those players worthy (and add veteran bats or bring in other young players to get the other at bats). If the White Sox's scouts reported that Phegley was only putting up good numbers in charlotte because of the weaker pitching and he'd never translate to the big leagues, the calling him up was literally nuts. Leave him in Charlotte, let him pile up the numbers and then use him as trade-bait for teams that have different reports on him. They called him up and gave him the starting job. They would not have done so if their reports and knowledge didn't believe he could turn into an above average player. They wouldn't have done so had they thought he wasn't worthy of the development time.

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) Creating a nice breeze with some swings Countdown until declarations that he's finished underway.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 04:46 PM) The Rangers, if they don't keep AJ, for one. What is Salty's status with the Red Sox? Napoli's not playing any catcher for them this year, is he? The Indians could use a full-time catcher there with Santana more well-suited for 1B/DH. Tigers, if they throw the towel in on Avila? Yankees? Saltalamacchia is a free agent and I actually think he'd be a plausible guy to pair with Phegley on the Chisox next year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 04:38 PM) Maximizing value for Phegley? He wouldn't have even came close to cracking a top 100 prospect list, probably wouldn't even crack a top 200 prospect list. Phegley's best value is and was with the White Sox and if he turns into a solid back-up catcher thats freaking great and we should be thankful (and if he plays well down the stretch and shows maybe he could be a starter, great). However, he's done nothing to indicate he's going to be an above average catcher (that isn't based upon just 22 games in the majors) and the White Sox shouldn't be in the business of giving guys with an upside of being at best a league average catcher years and years when you could potentially fill that need with a well above average player. If you'd have written any of this in late June people would have scoffed at you. Phegley was tearing up Charlotte and people were furious that he was being denied the chance he had earned. If he'd finished up his age 25 season in Charlotte the way he was the whole year, hitting .300+ with a nearly 1.000 OPS, then "He's done nothing to indicate he's going to be an above average catcher" would be just wrong because he'd have done exactly what you wanted him to do. Yes he hadn't done that beforehand, but he basically lost an entire season and the team pushed him upwards anyway. People were predicting how great he'd be when he came up based on how he was raking in Charlotte and I was the one being ignored when I said "expect him to struggle because that's the norm" and "expect people to declare in 3 weeks that he's a failure, that he never should have been given this chance, that his approach is terrible, that he'll never even be an average catcher" when people were basically ready to declare him the successor to McCann. Seriously, giving guys who destroy your AAA affiliate a 3 month shot to learn the entire major leagues is exactly how you make sure a franchise never develops anyone. If you need more proof that he's ready then don't call him up in June (which is what I was saying anyway). If you're only going to give a guy a 3 month stint to prove he's capable then you better be the most patient organization in the world with your callups because the guy better darn well be ready to hit the second he's called up, because a couple months is a useless measure for how a guy will develop long term.