Balta1701

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) wait a sec, morel was crap on defense? I thought that was his one saving grace This year he was bad. Not Hudson bad, but pretty bad. You're right he's supposed to be a solid defender, but back injuries aren't easy to deal with and he played through it for > a month.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Saying "Gordon Beckham is better than Brent Morel" is in no way proving he does not suck. Also, quoting yourself like you're some big pimp is super duper lame-o. Like I said before...Gordon Beckham is perfectly adequate at doing what he needs to do...which is not be awful, fill the 2b hole, play some decent defense, and be cheap. He won't be able to do that 2 years from now, but for some reason, adequate = sucks in your guys eyes.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) Ok, you got me there...point made. He doesn't have to be awesome. He's not even good. No, he's not even average. In the last THREE years, he's posted this : .249avg .318obp .386slb .704ops. I know it's just my opinion...but that SUCKS. The average 2b in major league baseball this year has posted a .696 OPS. Gordon Beckham's numbers over that stretch would make him basically an average offensive 2b in baseball this year. Last year the average 2b put up a .708 OPS.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:05 AM) My response is simple...Beckham is paid $450k right now. He fills a role and has been "Better than Brent Morel", if you want to put it that way. If you have an obviously better option, great, let's try it...but do the cost benefit analysis otherwise. If it costs $5 million to get slightly better production than Beckham, $10 million to get significantly more production, and you have to go with Brent Morel as your starting 3b or Tyler Flowers as your starting C to afford to upgrade over Beckham, are you really getting a good return on that investment? Next year, Beckham will get paid maybe $2 million or so in arbitration, give or take. At that point, then he's starting to cost more, but still gives you the ability to spend money on those other holes. But if his production next year is just like this year, again, by the time he finishes next year then his cost will be high enough that you wouldn't offer him arbitration again. So let's just be annoyed when he's up because of what might have been, but let's really sit down and think about it before we call him a detriment to the team. A guy who is a fill-in level player isn't carrying a team, but if having him there cheaply lets you fill a role with someone more expensive, then he's not a detriment, he's "tolerable" or "a stop-gap" or something like that. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) Right now, the average #9 hitter in the AL has an OPS of .640. Beckham has been better than that. He's among the worst hitters in baseball if you're compiling the 100 or so worst position playing hitters in baseball and excluding pitchers. This thread exists in the first place because Gordon was supposed to be better than this. He was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be hitting .300 with 25 HR ever year. He's not. So, rather than focus on what he actually is doing, which is filling a hole cheaply, it's much more fun to say things like "He sucks!". QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) Since Y2HH is passing and just blaming KW anyway...can someone else help him out here? I'm looking for a 2b or middle infielder who has moved this year who would be a substantial upgrade from Beckham and come with limited or no cost. Heck, you can add 2011 onto that list also. The only starting 2b in the league who I can recognize that moved anywhere this year was Infante, and the Tigers gave up a top pitching prospect for him and Anibal Sanchez. The Shortstops I can see who moved were Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez. Drew was cheap but has been hurt and is pretty much regarded as a bust himself, HanRam has a very high price. Here's the list of free agents last offseason. Guys signing for close to the minimum include Theriot, Jeff Keppinger, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Drew Sutton, Aaron Miles, Will Rhymes, Jose Lopez (already got him), Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Carlos Guillen, Brooks Conrad, Andres Blanco. Guys who signed at $3-4 million a year, "goodbye AJ" money, include Mark Ellis and Jamey Carroll. Please, enlighten me where this magical upgrade you envision would come from. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:23 PM) And this is why we scoff at your opinion. We got a .420 OPS out of Morel and a .516 OPS out of Hudson. With crap for defense on top of that. You literally can upgrade that by just grabbing anyone who's available and seeing what they can do. Gordon Beckham would have been a huge upgrade on what we got from those 2. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) You don't even have to strive for awesome... just give us some numbers as to why Gordon Beckham doesn't suck.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Yes, I see how that works, only unlike you, I'm ok with it! Now...do it. Give me numbers as to why Beckham is awesome. Why does "it's ridiculous to say he sucks" = "He's awesome". Saying he's awesome is just as ridiculous as saying he sucks. I'd be happy to dump a boatload of numbers on anyone who spouts that also. Of course, we only have 1 side represented here.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) Gordon Beckham sucks...do you agree? It's a yes or no question. Totally disagree and have very little respect for people who agree, and will be happy to overwhelm them with numbers about why they're wrong. See how that works?

HD Video of landing.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) Beckham is also some of the worst production in the bigs. And this is why we scoff at your opinion. We got a .420 OPS out of Morel and a .516 OPS out of Hudson. With crap for defense on top of that. You literally can upgrade that by just grabbing anyone who's available and seeing what they can do. Gordon Beckham would have been a huge upgrade on what we got from those 2.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) Medicare is also partially responsible for why you pay 3x as much. Private insurers are what hospitals use to make up for what they lose to Medicare negotiations. Great. So let me in on Medicare.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) The same thing could have been said about Youk at 3B. Things like this happen. I know, it's crazy to have opinions about baseball players on a baseball forum and all...but just because we're stuck with Beckham doesn't mean I can't say I think he sucks. That seems to be a huge problem around here...and I don't really understand why. really, no it coudln't have been. Kevin Youkilis was coming in to replace some of the worst production in the big leagues. This counts both offense and defense. Morel couldn't hit or field with his back problems, Hudson was marginally better with the bat but was costing games in the field even more than Morel.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) I didn't realize until yesterday that Youk is not even batting .250 for us. Still seems to get a ton of clutch hits though. Alexei bats .260 and doesn't seem to have near as big of an impact at the plate this year.... It's all been about a power surge for Youk.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:04 PM) I agree with most of this, though reports on his 2B and 3B defense I've seen are very positive. He was initially a shortstop. Otherwise, yeah, that's the ticket. I said it in PHT, I am betting Sanchez is in AAA in 2013, and they give Gordon one more long look at 2B. If his performance this August and September, and first half next year, are a significant improvement (in terms of offense), he keeps the job. If not, Sanchez gets the call, and Gordo becomes a utility IF. Good point. I'm not saying he'll be Konerko on defense, I'm just not expecting him to be Cal Ripken with the glove. He could fill in as an average 2b or 3b and be very useful to this team. Fair?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Jeff Keppinger. You'd have predidcted that a 32 year old journeyman who put up a .677 OPS part time for the Astros and Giants last year could come up and put together an .800+ OPS as a part time fill in for the Rays, and then you want to put that guy as a full time 2b option? I applaud you.

Just to throw another name onto the list, Mark Sanchez had fewer than 500 attempts when he was drafted.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:45 PM) Is he a legitimate "top prospect" or the best one in a low ranked minor league system? What is his major league position going to be, and how far away is he? Is he an OBP guy, power hitter? He's a batting average guy. He's not a legit top prospect. If everything goes well, he could pencil in as a decent major leaguer. His biggest flaw is probably that he's lacking power, but he's also very very young, and the difference between 0 HR and 10 HR is pretty large. He isn't expected to excel at being a speed guy or a defense guy, so he needs to hit. But...if he were to start playing some 2b or 3b, right now the Sox look to have needs at either of those positions. He's so young it's difficult to see him doing anything but spending most of next year in the minors, but if he keeps hitting >.300, he'll wind up in the majors at some point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:47 AM) I figured it was "deep sadness" - I didn't sense much guilt over raped kids there, just mostly sadness that he got ousted from PSU. Don't forget that just after he was informed of the grand jury investigation into Sandusky, he went to the Penn State Trustees and negoatiated a bigger retirement package. I'm not sure that counts as sadness for being ousted either.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) No you weren't, you were shown that the fraud and waste is comparable to and often better than the private sector alternatives. And that $716b isn't entirely from fraud, a big part is negotiated payment rates with doctors and hospitals. Well, a big chunk is also from ending Medicare Advantage, which pays private insurers to do the same thing Medicare does, which certainly could be classified as fraud also. Of course, the problem with calling it that is that "turning Medicare into Medicare Advantage" is a pretty decent summary of one of Paul Ryan's Medicare Overhaul plans...taking the guaranteed single payer system and replacing it with vouchers to purchase private insurance.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) This is the weakest non-question you could possibly ask, and I hate when people pose it when it comes to pro-sports. From the get go, it's an unfair question to even ask, as I'm not the Sox GM, so how could I possibly answer this? There are a LOT of teams out there with a lot of players that could have been had. KW traded, or picked up 5 of them so far this year alone, and ALL of them were upgrades over what we had. It's not a reach to say a good replacement for Beckham couldn't have been found. Since Y2HH is passing and just blaming KW anyway...can someone else help him out here? I'm looking for a 2b or middle infielder who has moved this year who would be a substantial upgrade from Beckham and come with limited or no cost. Heck, you can add 2011 onto that list also. The only starting 2b in the league who I can recognize that moved anywhere this year was Infante, and the Tigers gave up a top pitching prospect for him and Anibal Sanchez. The Shortstops I can see who moved were Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez. Drew was cheap but has been hurt and is pretty much regarded as a bust himself, HanRam has a very high price. Here's the list of free agents last offseason. Guys signing for close to the minimum include Theriot, Jeff Keppinger, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Drew Sutton, Aaron Miles, Will Rhymes, Jose Lopez (already got him), Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Carlos Guillen, Brooks Conrad, Andres Blanco. Guys who signed at $3-4 million a year, "goodbye AJ" money, include Mark Ellis and Jamey Carroll. Please, enlighten me where this magical upgrade you envision would come from.

He'd pitched his way back into the big leagues and could have gotten another season or two added to his career after this year. Seems like a reasonabl egamble.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) Well, it is more fun, which is why I did it. But you basically highlighted my entire point. People are defending his poor play because of what he was supposed to be...but at this point, it's clear he's never going to become that. We've all been damn patient waiting for him to come around, and it's been three years now...he's not coming around. He was picked and place on this team early because he was a future star...and he's been anything but. In the three years we've wasted waiting for him to blossom, we could have had a much better replacement. Nobody wanted that, including me...we saw something in Beckham and were hoping for the best. The best hasn't arrived, and won't be...IMO, we cut our losses with this sooner than later. I don't think he's filling a hole, so much as he is helping to create one. Who? Where are you getting this person? What are we giving up to get it? Would you rather have spent our 2010 first round pick on another middle infielder? Should we have traded off Pierzynski or Konerko last offseason to free up the money to sign one? You can't just magically pretend that a 2b will appear because we want one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) He might have, unless it was ridiculous. The chairman himself told mark to take the money.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) What's "slightly better production?" Beckham's been among the worst hitters in baseball for 3 years. He's starting to make Nix look good. Right now, the average #9 hitter in the AL has an OPS of .640. Beckham has been better than that. He's among the worst hitters in baseball if you're compiling the 100 or so worst position playing hitters in baseball and excluding pitchers. This thread exists in the first place because Gordon was supposed to be better than this. He was supposed to be the golden boy. He was supposed to be hitting .300 with 25 HR ever year. He's not. So, rather than focus on what he actually is doing, which is filling a hole cheaply, it's much more fun to say things like "He sucks!".

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 10:56 AM) Like many of you, I was a Beckham defender...especially after his debut season...the issue is MLB adapted to Beckham, and Beckham has shown he's unable to adapt in return. It hasn't been a small sample size...it's been three terrible years. It's of my opinion that this team would be better off without him at this point. I'm not a sabermetrics person, so aside from playing devils advocate and bringing up dWAR, the statistic doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is Beckham is a net detriment to this team right now, and has been for a LONG time. Wise has been with the team for what, two weeks? He's already made more of a contribution to the team than Beckham has in 3 years. My response is simple...Beckham is paid $450k right now. He fills a role and has been "Better than Brent Morel", if you want to put it that way. If you have an obviously better option, great, let's try it...but do the cost benefit analysis otherwise. If it costs $5 million to get slightly better production than Beckham, $10 million to get significantly more production, and you have to go with Brent Morel as your starting 3b or Tyler Flowers as your starting C to afford to upgrade over Beckham, are you really getting a good return on that investment? Next year, Beckham will get paid maybe $2 million or so in arbitration, give or take. At that point, then he's starting to cost more, but still gives you the ability to spend money on those other holes. But if his production next year is just like this year, again, by the time he finishes next year then his cost will be high enough that you wouldn't offer him arbitration again. So let's just be annoyed when he's up because of what might have been, but let's really sit down and think about it before we call him a detriment to the team. A guy who is a fill-in level player isn't carrying a team, but if having him there cheaply lets you fill a role with someone more expensive, then he's not a detriment, he's "tolerable" or "a stop-gap" or something like that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 09:53 AM) It seems like it must have been since 08, because I want to say it included Gordo. You're right, here's one version of it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 09:42 AM) The VA outperformed? Holy s*** that is funny. Next time I am up at the VFW, I'll have to tell the guys that for a nice laugh. The logical conclusion from your disbelief about the VA's performance is; My God, private insurance must be jaw droppingly horrible. And yeah, I pretty much agree with that.