Balta1701

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) underperforming is a risk in fa, traded players and regular players. there is no way possible to prevent this. So if you're going to max out your salary spending you darn well better have a team that has some room to survive a couple players underperforming or getting hurt! And we've even been unbelievably lucky this year on health too!

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) It's not really about the money though. Overpaying for LaRoche & Melky would be fine if they were productive. The problem is they're pretty much under-performing by a good 4 to 5 wins. There are plenty of free agents that are performing at or even exceeding expectations (whether they're overpaid or not). The same strategy of "going for it" could have resulted in a much more favorable outcome if the execution consisted of a different set of players. The point is...that's by far the likelist scenario when you try to remake your roster on the FA market. With the guys you're paying full price for, there's a very high chance that they will under-perform substantially. That's why they're on the FA market and available in the first place. When you sign 1, you've got a fair chance that guy will perform and a fair chance he'll underperform. There's virtually no chance he'll overperform if you're paying full price for him because the demand on the FA market is that great. If you're trying to find 4-5 different pieces, and 2 or 3 of them significantly underperform while 2-3 are about where they should be, your roster is going to be missing 4 to 5 wins compared to what you budgeted for. When you're buying full priced guys, there's virtually no upside risk and there's a lot of downside risk. There's so much demand on the market by teams that actually are competitive that you are extremely likely to find several duds if you try to find several guys. Oh, and I should also note the risk of guys underperforming is probably even higher if some of the pieces you're trying to find are guys for your bullpen.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) Ultimately, I don't think the strategy of going for it was the problem (the AL is wide open), it was the execution of the plan that has us where we currently are. To my eyes, the reason why the strategy was flawed was that it relied on doing things that don't work. Paying full price for mid-level free agents is not working for almost anyone right now. Teams don't let guys who are actually contributing reach free agency until they're old enough that decline looks likely or unless they have other issues. Once they get to free agency, then there are so many teams going after so few guys in order to "Win right now" that you have to massively overpay. You brought up the fWAR numbers - it was going to be almost impossible for Robertson and LaRoche to be worth their contracts this year in fWAR terms, we paid a "win now premium price" on those guys. Fangraphs even wrote an article last December about how the White Sox massively overpaid for LaRoche because even with a small decline the fact that he'd be playing DH most of the time meant he'd struggle to put up 1.5 fWAR in a good year. They then threw in the "but maybe if the White Sox are ready to compete that's ok" - but you can't say that about half your roster. If your plan is to remake your roster with expensive, FA additions, where you're paying full price and not getting a discount for any reason, the 2015 Chicago White Sox (or the 2015 Red Sox, for that matter) is probably going to be the end result. If you're trying to take a team that is close and fill 1 hole...that can potentially be done. Teams can find guys to supplement their roster, but when 15 teams are looking to pay a premium price to fill 1-2 roster holes and your team is looking to fill 7-8, your strategy cannot work.

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) as much as i hate to ask this, but isn't Rodon upside suppose to be greater than Fulmer??? so isn't it possible to expect different results in his development vs Rodon development. The upside of both of them is "#1 starter in the big leagues after a couple years in the big leagues and Cy Young contender by the time they reach free agency". Rodon slightly better since he's a lefty? Sure I'll go with that.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 10:19 AM) I do think Fulmer, at least as a starter, has more polishing needed than Rodon. We've seen Rodon struggle with command this year but IMO Fulmer has even more work to do in that regard. Think about that in the same context as Rodon then...where is he likely to be forced to work on that command, in the minors where people regularly expand the zone against guys who have overpowering stuff? Or does he need to face big league hitters and suffer against them a few times to really see how important control in and around the strike zone is? The same reasons why Rodon staying in the big leagues while struggling this year was the right move could well suggest Fulmer should get a shot to struggle in the big leagues early next year.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 12:44 AM) So what's the ETA on Fulmer? '17 like Anderson? Trib had an article a couple days ago where they threw in the under-the-radar talk about a callup for him this year. That's sort of exactly how they were talking with Rodon last year. Whispers about a callup but being coy about it. My best guess still remains he'll be on a very similar path to Rodon. Get to 140ish innings this year, start in AAA for a game or two next year after ST, and then comes up to the big leagues, maybe stays in the pen for a couple weeks giving Danks or EJ starts, then takes over a rotation slot.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) Probably a few minor league vets like Leury Garcia, Carroll, Brantley. They are all on the 40 Man, as are Junior Guerro and Montas. Not exactly a boatload of young, major league-ready prospects. Barons currently have dropped out of the Southern League playoff spot they were holding so i could see Montas coming up and making a bullpen appearance or two.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 06:42 AM) I really hope Kershaw pitches well in the postseason. He's been the best pitcher in the world for 5 years, but his reputation keeps getting sullied by the Cardinals postseason pixie dust. He's got a shot at 300Ks as well this year.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 09:51 AM) I am not so sure. We lost 89 games last year and are on pace to lose 85 this year. We finished 4th in the division last year and probably will this year. Not sure that is a lot of progress. I think we have brought in some younger players which is good but also we have also developed 2 more problems in 3rd and RF. On the plus side we did add Fulmer. Yes, we improved marginally on our record this year. It took spending >$50 million/season in new money and trading for a pitcher 1 year away from free agency and having a team that is unbelievably, remarkably healthy to upgrade by ~4 games. There's a good chance that'll be just enough to land us a first round pick in 2016 that isn't protected. This isn't complimentary. I didn't wade into this thread last night, y'all know how I feel about these guys, but man this attitude of "we're going the right direction look at our record!" really frustrates me. Just to tread water from this season we'll have to spend like $25 million in new money and attendance is going to go the opposite direction next year again.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 02:21 AM) I think our rebuilding is going pretty well. So well that we took a shot at the WS this year, year 2. So well that alot of you are pissed we didn't do better. You're pissed because, well, damn it actually looked pretty decent on paper after only a one year core-flip. Stay the course fellas. Don't jump ship. We're getting better not worse. When a team near the bottom of the league "takes a shot at the world series" and winds up still near the bottom of the league, that's not a compliment on their successful rebuilding, that's a statement that management has no idea what their roster actually can do.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 09:52 PM) Whaddaya bet the Tigers will end up with a better record than the Sox? They sold off 2 of their best players then stayed ahead of us all august. Then they got Miguel back and we passed them briefly. Baseball is a weird game.

Is this replay not done yet? Jesus.

That ball went a long way. Heard the sound from phone and was looking away from it and knew.

Man Danks has given up a lot of hits today for the 0 runs.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 06:08 PM) I don't know the market for Ramirez so if the White Sox are convinced he won't be able to match his contract for 2016 on the open market, then, obviously, you don't pick up the option. The White Sox have to be careful here though; Ramirez hasn't had a good year, but what is the alternative for next season? Is Tim Anderson ready? What are the other alternatives? They already have massive offensive holes at 3B, SS (including Ramirez who hasn't played well) 2B, RF, DH and C. I think they need to consider bringing him back for next season, especially if they don't have an in-house alternative. To the bolded I emphatically say no. I personally want to see Saladino there for 2016, but that's because my perspective on the franchise is that we have a roster that is far from competitive in this league & I want to act like it and grow for the future.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 05:24 PM) This is sort of off-topic, but do you guys think that Danks will get into the HOF when he retires? My friend said that he has a shot. I was laughing hysterically, but I was wondering if anyone thought the same. If you want to give him a non-laughter-filled answer, here's a simple one. Hall of famers typically start getting into the conversation when they're in the range of 50-60 fWAR. John Danks is at 17. If they don't know fWAR, the worst ERA I could find listed in the HOF is 3.80 for Red Ruffing. John Danks is at 4.34 career and going up.

One thing worth saying is that LaRoche is actually 7 for his last 22 with 2 HR, 3 2b, and 5 RBI in that stretch of 5 starts, and since we're going to be honest here that there is 0% chance the White Sox are going to eat the $13 million on his contract if we can nurse him back to having a decent September and rebuild his confidence in himself that could give him a shot at contributing more next year.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 12:33 PM) I really agree with your statement. How do we really come up with a valid comparison? In the era of the dead ball and just after the turn of the century when there are few, if any, films to watch, people to talk to that actually saw the players, probably now where the stats we have now, etc, how do we see how those players compare against guys today. For many of us Our greatest players of all time knowledge starts with the Big Hurt. I bet there are many posters on this site that have never seen players like Carl Yaz, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and other real fine players actually play. Even I have never seen the Babe play LOL The Babe also never had to face Satchel Paige.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) Welp...if this is true and people within Subway knew about this and ignored it, that is it, I won't eat another subway sandwich again. Jersey Mike's will get my business instead. Do you think that will actually be investigated by someone?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) Sox were 3-3 vs. the Cubs and 2-2 vs. the Cards. Why are they considered so good and the Sox so bad? These things are so random. I think the teams that are good in each league would be good if they were in the other league. And 0-4 against the Pirates.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 10:38 AM) One month of Matt Albers should net a decent prospect? We've gotten enough wild cards for 1 month guys that eventually IIRC the guy we got for Beckham last year at least wound up in the top 30 list.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 10:19 AM) You may be right. Don't you think the fact that he's here is a clear indication that they'll pick up the option though? Yes. I think that is fully consistent with the decisions the White Sox have made in recent years.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 10:09 AM) I agree with this. They may deal him in the offseason but I think they pick up the option for sure. I don't think that anyone would actually trade for him at a $10 million price in the offseason when there are other options available that were equally weak this year but are 1/2 that price. Maybe, maybe someone would do so if their SS got hurt late in the winter or during ST and they had no other backup option and were a team that could absorb a payroll hit.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 11:04 PM) Saladino needs to work on his stroke. It's sooooo bad right now. He just pounds balls in the grounds or pops out. He should just learn to work walks. QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 11:55 PM) Saladino looks like the utility infielder going forward. At least He won't cost 4 million. Micah should be up now. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) This thread means we have officially seen the peak of Thompson's career. I couldn't help but notice the contrast between comments last night about Tyler and this thread about doubleT.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 28, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) Work manual labor for 45 years and see if your body will even let you keep working until 70. My mom could barely walk by her early 60s and she was just a teacher. If she didn't have a solid pension to fall back on she'd probably have been teaching for 5 years from a chair.